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so Tucker Carlson recently claimed to have had a physical encounter with the Demonic a spiritual attack in the middle of the night leaving claw marks like on his body on his shoulders and on his sides and then I had these terrible pains on my rib cage and on my shoulder and I was just my boxer shorts and I went and flipped on the light in the bathroom and I had four claw marks on either side underneath my arms and on my left shoulder even more intriguing this experience triggered an intense desire for him to dive into like reading the Bible he read it for like a year straight to shed light on Tucker’s experience and explore what what might have actually happened here I’ve invited none other than father Carlos Martins a Catholic priest an exorcist he’s been on the channel a bunch father Martins has years of experience dealing with cases of demonic possession and oppression and even vexation we’ll hear his expert perspective on whether these events align with the church’s understanding of spiritual warfare and more importantly what lessons we can actually take from Tucker’s crazy story so let’s go ahead and begin with the first clip in which Tucker describes being mauled by a demon in bed do you think the presence of evil kickstarting people to wonder about the good that’s what happened to me that’s what happened to you oh yeah I had a direct uh experience with it in the milu of Journalism or just nope in my bed at night and I got attacked while I was asleep with my wife and four dogs in the bed and mauled physically mauled um in a spiritual attack by a demon Yeah by a demon or by something unseen that left is that right claw marks on my sides on my so it left physical marks oh they’re still there yeah yeah so we’ll pause there really quickly and I want to ask you like how common is it for demons to leave physical marks on people in your experience well if they decide to physically attack and they have permission from God to do so they certainly can It’s Not Unusual for those who are experiencing ing a a direct demonic attack and that would be such an attack would be what we call a vexation they you know Tucker Carlson appears to have been vexed uh so it a vexation isn’t a a physical attack from the outside or it can be a mental attack from the inside where uh the individual is attacked briefly claw marks um a coffee cup being thrown across the room um a painting falling off the wall maybe a second one following perhaps a third there brief physical attacks when they are physical they can be brief bursts of anger at somebody an embarrassing comment that you had no intention of saying but they’re over briefly uh they’re they’re kind of instantaneous attacks and they may never happen again uh so this is an attack that has a discret starting point a discret end point it may repeat two or three times but it it it’s not longlasting but so you’ve seen in your experience you’ve seen cases of people experiencing something similar these sort of physical attacks that leave physical marks on their bodies I know that there are historical accounts of people dealing with this sort of thing but have you had any personal experience with this have you seen people with these sorts of marks have you seen them occur maybe while you were there I know that there’s reports of that type of thing as well absolutely so so I’ve seen them hit the victim in the course of an exorcism for example where on the arm all of a sudden on the victim’s arm it looks like someone dragged a sharp nail just and just dragged it across the skin and and cut it open uh that that that like a like a sharp scrape Across the Skin and you see the victim this so this is not in the state of possession you see this is this is when the victim is is is has access uh to his or her Consciousness and and body and and just win is in pain and and you look and this welt opens up and it begins bleeding all along the the the scratch line and and up until that point uh there was no scratch whatsoever myself in my office uh I Ed the example earlier of the coffee cup because I’ve had that happen where a coffee cup goes off of my desk and sails past my face and smashes against the wall those are vexations uh it it doesn’t mean I’m POS asked it doesn’t mean the room is infested it’s a brief discreet attack that has a supernatural character you know so obviously there’s no there’s no physical cause that is attributable to this and the only explanation is a preternatural cause and it all of these that I have seen have been in the context of either an exorcism or someone who is experiencing demonic attack habitually and or or someone who is working against that attack like such as an exorcist as myself all right so in the next clip Tucker mentions how he saw like bleeding marks on his body and on his shoulder and he he says he didn’t like have any long nails so like he he doesn’t think that it was self-inflicted it’s very interesting stuff obviously but before we get to that clip father Martins I understand that you’ve got a new book out that’s available right now for pre-order can you tell our audience a little bit about this this new book sure yeah so my book is called The Exorcist files which is the same name as my podcast but it is very different it’s um much more thorough and exhaustive what Tucker experienced here is what we would call a vexation so an attack from the outside a momentary brief physical attack a collection of vexations within a place would be what we call an infestation like a house infestation an apartment infestation going up from that attack is that level of attack would be a collect ction of internal vexation so a vexation could have a physical character to it like what happened to Tucker or it could have a mental character such that for a brief momentary instant you are you snap at somebody that you had no intention of snapping at your patience is suddenly exhausted you make a crude maybe obscene comment to someone and you had no intention of doing so this is not habitual this is a brief momentary thing and you wonder like where did that come from a collection of those would be an oppression when there’s both at the same time both mental and physical you’ve got an obsession so a great part of your person now is not under your control when the Consciousness is also taken over then we call that possession so there is the Demonic hierarchy and I go into much more thorough detail in the book about this uh the book is available uh through any major books seller you can see The Links at my website father Carlos martin.com that’s father spelled out f a t h r Carlos martin.com yeah and I would definitely recommend that you guys pick up that book it is very important that more people have a very grounded basis for what you’re hearing I mean what we’re covering today is pretty crazy right and we want to give people materials resources so they can really understand like what’s going on especially from a good C cic perspective so but let’s now turn to this second clip as I mentioned from Tucker in which he explains these these sort of claw marks that were left on his body was your wife terrified I know you were I wasn’t I was totally confused I woke up and I was couldn’t breathe and I thought I was going to suffocate and I walked around outside and then I walked in and my wife and dogs had not woken up and they’re very light sleepers and then I had these terrible pains on my rib cage and on my shoulder and I was just in my boxer shorts and I went and flipped on the light in the bathroom and I had four claw marks on either side underneath my arms and on my left shoulder and they’re bleeding wait they they were bleeding they’re bleeding yeah no they’re actual claw marks and I sleep on my side so I wasn’t clawing myself I don’t have long nails um and they didn’t fit my hands anyway but yeah that happened yeah so he says that they didn’t fit his hands he didn’t have nails he was sleeping on his side so he couldn’t actually reap around reach around and like claw himself does that indicate to you that it it couldn’t have been from maybe even the dogs he’s mentioned that the dogs were on the bed could it have been himself like could he have you know accidentally scratched himself and just not been aware of it is the is demonic vexation the only possible explanation here what are your thoughts uh I mean assuming that Tucker Carlson is being honest right assuming all other things being equal uh then then what he States I I think is reasonable the fact that they don’t fit his hands he didn’t do it to himself the dogs didn’t do it his wife didn’t do it they were all still asleep I think if you’re going to take that at face value I think the only reasonable explanation is the fact that you had a vexation now maybe for me that’s easier to believe than for most people because this is the world in which I have functioned uh so so the fact look look it took great courage you know for this man for Tucker Carlson with the profile that he possesses to go on the internet and say this and R looking like a fool and to many individuals he will absolutely be a fool for having done this this is saying something so I think we have to take him at face value now the fact that that the the devil again all other things being equal looking at this as a vexation the fact that the devil made the claw marks a different size than Tucker’s old own hand and the fact that the other individuals in the house were kept sleeping in other words this was a soundless attack is him leaving his very calling card and saying there is no other explanation than me so he is he is he’s leaving no doubt in Tucker’s mind and you can see in that man when he’s talking there’s no doubt in in his mind what happened the devil is doing that very thing he’s letting him know I’m here and I’ve got my eyes on you and why does he do that well there’s a psychological scrutiny then that you are subjected to no the fact that you have these These preternatural Eyes of hatred focused on you you’re he’s aware of you he’s letting you know that he’s aware of you that you’re on his radar that’s an unnerving thing all right so in the next clip I’ve got pulled up for us Tucker describes realizing that it wasn’t just a dream because he saw blood like literal Blood on the sheets and then he called a friend of his an Evangelical Christian assistant for some guidance on this and so now the reason why I’ve invited you here I want to get some guidance from an exorcist on this ourself but let’s watch this clip what was the next day like well the next morning I woke up and I thought that was the weirdest dream I’ve ever had and then I saw blood on my sheets and I realized that was not a dream at all I called my assistant who was like the only Evangelical Christian I know you know well enough to call with something bizarre like that totally bizarre like that and uh she said oh yeah no no that happens yeah people are attacked in their bed by demons what what are you even talking about yeah so I mean I’m not leaving anything out and and um and I’m not pretending to understand that I can only say what happened to me and that did happen to me all right so we’ll we’ll pause there and get some comments from you on this what are your thoughts on him reaching out to his to his Evangelical friend I mean what what sort of struck out to me stuck out to me rather is that he didn’t really have he he doesn’t really have like a background he doesn’t have the sort of explanatory resources as one way to put it to explain what happened to him because it doesn’t seem like he’s really that religious doesn’t come from a very strong faith background so he didn’t really know like what’s going on and then he calls his Evangelical friend she’s like oh yeah you know it it happens like this this kind of stuff is normal um which I guess isn’t going to be too too far from your response from this right because of your experience right yeah so so this tells you an awful lot about Tucker and and and the experience that he had so again it took great courage for a man like him to come on the internet and make this disclosure it took an even greater courage for him to say I didn’t know what to do so I just called somebody who I thought may have more of an answer than I do but immediately his Instinct was to respond with the Christian faith and I don’t have enough of it myself or at least I certainly don’t have enough knowledge so I’m going to ask somebody who I think has more than me and so this person reassured him his assistant yes you know demons do attack people in their sleep and it was there was an incredulity on his part right this was not an answer that he was expecting but all of this goes to show you that the you know the engineer of all of this is not the devil the engineer is God whenever the devil attacks it is only because he has the express permission of God and why would God do that well look at what it’s done to Tucker Carlson it’s turned him more towards God certainly more than what he was right it began him on a faith Journey the man uh has has been touched and he’s pursuing God and that event in and of itself what he has found in God has given him enough courage to go online and give this disclosure which for which I applaud him you again took great courage took great courage on his part H so your your claim here is that God allowed this to happen because he knew sort of what would occur after the fact absolutely you know God is in charge he is The Sovereign lord of the universe the devil has no power over God so that God gives the devil power why well uh the the the the classic answer for that the Christian answer is that God permits evil in order to bring forth greater good we we have St Augustine of Hippo to thank for that great articulation of that Christian principle uh that that the devil through his action through his rage through his attack through his Rebellion is nevertheless fulfilling God’s will be precisely because all of his actions bring forth greater good so I’ve got some thoughts on this because this touches on the problem of evil I’ve done a whole lot of thinking on this this topic one way to articulate there here’s a really good analogy from uh vaccines so you get your child a vaccine what you do is you go to the doctor’s office you get them a vaccine and that’s suffering right they’re experiencing some suffering and the idea here is that they’re going to avoid some really bad thing that’s going to happen in their life and so there’s this greater good like avoiding this disease or whatever that’s why you allow them to suffer in that situation even though they may not understand like why daddy why are you you know letting this guy poke me with this needle they may not understand at whatever age they are but there’s nevertheless a reason why you’re allowing that to happen so that’s one analogy you can use um now some people are going to provide some push back on that they say well even in God’s like it’s it’s just still like there’s something wrong about that like why would you go through this scenario why would you think that it’s moral for God to be able to do that because really what it’s about is he’s trying to attain this greater good but that just seems problematic what so one way around this is to instead suggest that there’s this these great values that God has in mind what he wants to do when he’s he’s thinking about creating a specific world is that he’s trying to instantiate or create a world that has the most value possible and in a world where there are these sorts of Virtues that can be created th through something like this situation with Tucker where he’s experiencing this suffering he’s now having to express all of this courage to come out with this information to Wade through the different you know possible explanation what what could this have been we’re going to learn later that he he’s been reading his Bible for the past year the these are really great Goods that bring value to the world world and God knows because he’s omniscient you know what sort of uh different value propositions are going to be on offer if he creates this world if he creates this world and so you don’t have to think about it like you know God is is only allowing this to bring about some consequence you don’t have to think about it and that and in those terms necessarily you could think about it in terms of like a value proposition like God wants to create a world that has a whole lot of value this is a kind of world that has a whole lot of value a a world in which there there are trials and tribul and people can go through things learn things from them and those those things that you know are produced are are really great goods and they add value to the world what are your thoughts on those two things that I uh just explained there I think that I think the analogy helps but it certainly does help and and I think what you’re getting at Cameron like I I I what you’re describing is that God created a moral Universe where it is possible to choose good and possible to choose evil for there to be any meaning at all there have to be those two possibilities otherwise there is no meaning otherwise we are reduced to robots who function in the way that we are programmed remove Free Will out of the equation and you have a tomaton you you have robots so for there to be meaning at all objective meaning meaning beyond the meaning merely to God you know for you and I to understand and POS possess meaning for you and I to learn for for you and I to come to an understanding of goodness we have to have the possibility of rejecting things including that very goodness right so God has constructed the universe to be a moral universe and that opens up the pathway to meaning and in in the course of that you know God God has given us free will whenever he gives a gift he doesn’t take it back it’s part of our human nature he gives us everything we need he equips us to choose the good and reject the evil and so then he leaves it for us to to do that in the course of our making those choices we will make wrong choices and we learn from them and we come to a point where we gather meaning and we compare it to lack of meaning and the choices of good and bad are presented to us Tucker Carlson is is exhibiting that very thing this man is a consumate professional when when you see he’s an amazing interviewer he thinks lightning fast on his feet like his intellect is is a gangling gun uh when he he’s able to absorb a point see its implications and choose one and make a a reply or rort or jump off of that point and ask a question that that is going to be consumat intelligent uh and so for that man to come forward now and say something like well I had this mystical experience This Is Not Unusual humans have this they come through different ways this is the way that it came to him but it gave him pause it set him on the road to learning about God for a year and a half so that it didn’t have a five or 10 minute effect on him nor even a four-week effect on him you know he spent a year a year and a half reading the Bible and it changed him so I think we need to listen to the man’s experience and this has to factor in when we evaluate this experience because this is equally important to everything else and we do this in other contexts when when when you study an artist for example why did he paint this painting at this time and in this way we look at the broader picture of the artist you know where was he in his life what was happening to him emotionally economically what was happening to him at at the level of his own psychology uh I think we have to we have to give that due diligence to this experience that Tucker Carlson had I I did have a problem with the one of the things that you said earlier on because you were talking about free choice and my immediate thought was and I know that Skeptics are going to bring this up is well what about heaven because there’s no like free moral choice in heaven to choose bad choose wrong things in Heaven There is I oh yeah absolutely absolutely your but the good is presented to us in its consumate form okay so that’s your okay that’s I love that view actually all right let’s turn now to our next clip where Tucker says that the uh attack spurred a sort of strong desire to read the Bible let’s watch this one and uh and then I was seized with this very intense desire to read the Bible uh which I then started without any study AIDS or anything I bought a Bible that didn’t have I’m not interested in editorializing in the Bible I just want to read it and see what’s in there myself so yeah one one really interesting thing about this clip is that he mentions that he like when immediately to the Bible he says some other interesting things like you know he didn’t really want to read commentaries at first we can talk about that maybe but the thing I want to focus on is like why do you think that he immediately went to the Bible especially since we we learned that he didn’t really have the strong faith background well it was exactly that he didn’t have a strong faith background but that attack HIIT him as a demonic attack right so so he knew that he was targeted no one else in the room was targeted and nothing else was targeted but he alone he was singled out I’m in the crosshairs of the enemy and I don’t have the resources to face this attack so he went in into the direction where where his minded heart immediately led him to the word of God so I I need something that God that only God can give me I I need to pursue him and this is the story that has played out since the fall of Man where we Inuit it being attacked and and we seek God whenever that attack happens and and it may not be diabolical but just the fact that our own vulnerability our own weaknesses hit us and then we seek seek strength we seek Divine assistance in God’s word right this is the human story it has played out uh since since the dawn of man all right we’ve got two more clips and in this next one he expresses some skepticism towards Christian pastors let’s go ahead and watch this one very low of trust for Christian pastors most of whom you know I’m just not a fan at all and uh sorry to say that but that’s how I feel and so I just didn’t I don’t want to hear other people’s opinions I just want to see what’s in there and I so I spent a year and a half reading it and then I started rereading it and it was a just a transformative experience for me but I’m not you know holding myself out as someone from whom you could get theological advice because I’m not of course he’s yeah he says that he’s you know don’t take me as like a theologian like don’t come to me with all of your questions but the interesting thing here is that he says that he’s you know skeptical of of Christian pastors what do you think is fueling that skepticism on his part well I I don’t know I mean I don’t know his personal experience um you know I take him I take anyone at face value um he may have had a terrible personal experience certain scandals may have hit him uh terribly and okay fair enough uh so but the point is that God has broken through in the context of this demonic attack and through it and now he’s pursuing God and in the course of that uh he he may change his mind he may find a Christian Pastor that that that has those qualities that he sees that can help him uh and and to whom he opens his heart and his mind and and fine good enough you know look we we all have been in in places where we mistrust certain people most of us mistrust telemarketers uh and and and they’re not you know we’re not thrilled when we get a telemarketer on the phone uh and I I don’t know Tucker’s experience with Christian pastors and so hey fair enough they’re not his favorite people and um I think the point though is that one can see that God is working on him that that that something has penetrated through and again he’s gone publicly now to say this and that experience was a pretty powerful experience to Tucker Carlson what if you could give him some advice what advice would you give him in terms of like his distrust for these religious leaders like especially if someone wants to I mean he see seems like he’s sort of being influenced by Christianity in some sense he like just read the whole Bible but if he wants to stay within Orthodox Christianity what sort of advice would you give him I would give him the same advice I’d give everyone get rid of the sin out of your life right I I don’t know Tucker Carlson I I don’t know what sin he may may not have in his life but this is my general advice to everyone get rid of the sin out of your life open your heart to God and Obey him the mark of a disciple is not Faith the mark of a disciple is obedience start obeying God get holy develop a prayer life you know develop a life in which you make yourself docile to God Only God Can Make You y so pursue him and pursue that path and then not only will you become a better person but the clarity of your path in front of you opens up because you possess Grace inside you and your heart begins to soften against certain persons certain things that you had no tolerance for in the past so maybe you will find a Christian Pastor maybe you can listen to some with an open mind I I don’t think that we’re all evil obviously I I don’t think that but in your movement towards Perfection you will become Perfection you’ll become more and more perfect and so the way that God has touched other other things and other persons start to resonate with you and you begin to be able to pursue them in an unbiased way with in a in a way of an open heart uh that any and every saint possesses all right so for our last clip Tucker talks about how the presence of evil launched him into a new spiritual awareness uh this clip is pretty interesting let’s watch this one I don’t know I don’t understand any of it but got allowed the demon I have no idea what happened all I know is I was dead asleep with my wife and dogs and I woke up with claw marks on my rib cage underneath my arms and it didn’t even make sense my arms would anyway whatever I’m not no one has to believe me I don’t care doesn’t matter but that happened to me I actually like this we’ll continue watching this clip but I actually like that it made it seem like he just is reporting what happened to him so I think this actually increases the credibility of this account and uh so I just was like wow that that’s real whatever that is I’m even not sure what it is but it’s very real and so then that presence of that evil yeah launches something yep that’s pretty much the end there what what are your thoughts on this uh this last clip here yeah so you know obviously it is something real uh for him it it it caused a response a very deliberate response he didn’t even know how to how to define it you know that question is a pungent pregnant question that’s that you know what happened well I don’t even know what happened I don’t know and and so his response was was a built-in one that for me I I can see God moving in that I can see that because it didn’t have it didn’t have to happen that way but but it did and and for me this is one of the signature ways in which I see God moving when I work with people who have suffered vexations who have been demonically attacked uh they they there’s an awareness like I went this way and I got profoundly hurt I’m going to go the other way and I’m going to see I’m going to follow uh something that I’ve heard from others is is a path to health to life uh to to happiness H and this is what has happened to Tucker
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