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you send me a rifle that I love I I don’t care you get busted for a drug-related murder spree and I will testify to your character sorry I’m actually very easy to buy I didn’t know that fairly fairly cheap date cheap date it’s like it’s a you know Jeffrey dmer bad guy but he sent me this rifle once that I love [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] so I woke up this morning thinking about something you said at dinner last night you said I’ve been um telling people I’ve been warning people for 30 years about debt and why it’s bad and there’s more people in Deb than ever and uh and you sort of bitterly laugh but I thought it was a really interesting point this country is much deeper in debt I think than we appreciate on an individual level not just national debt but people how how deep is the debt and why it’s bad it’s bad it’s bad yeah we’re not we we’re laughing about it because we uh you know we’re you know David and Goliath in a sense of the uh the credit card industry for instance spends more on advertising and marketing in a year um than all professional sports put together than any other single product line on the planet uh it they and they and they and they are excellent marketers they’re very good at what they do to just to sell a Visa and to make it normalized and to make MasterCard a part of our lives and so we’re at 1.7 trillion in credit card debt right now we’re at 1.9 trillion now in student loan debt um car debt is um you know in the mid one trillions as well um it’s the highest all of those are the highest they’ve ever been right right now and yeah and I’ve been working to get people out of debt for 30 years so I’m a complete abject failure you’ve been telling the truth which counts it counts but in terms of I help that one and that one but as a whole the macro on it yeah we’re running backwards uh they’re better at selling it than I am more on marketing the I just want to say this out loud make sure I got it the credit card companies spend more on marketing every year than all professional sports yep and then all in any other product line an automotive line you know put together for Chrysler Toyota whatever put all and that there’s a lot of television commercials with Chevy trucks running through the mud but oh yeah nothing like Visa not nothing like Visa Mastercard uh discover MX uh because it’s so stinking profitable they just make so do they really so can you explain I wish I knew more about this well it’s simple they charge 18 to 28% on the and people stay in debt average American right now is $37,000 in credit card debt so you run that out times 300 million and you’ve got some money coming coming into good old Chase and what’s in your wallet their money um you know so it’s it’s bad so that I mean that’s got to be one of the major profit centers in American banking oh definitely definitely uh banking exists based on debt in general obviously obviously uh they’re borrowing money from you at the rate of your savings account and then they’re loaning it to your neighbor at the rate of a car loan or a credit card or a home equity loan and obviously there’s spread there and that’s why we’ve always known Bankers were wealthy folks they’re not greedy they’re not evil they’re just doing their thing and they’re better at it than we are as consumers we’re just kind of wandering along like pigs to the slaughter so I okay they Market to kids and I know that cuz when I was in college um one of the few things I remember from college was getting free credit cards in the mail yeah yeah but they you know you weren’t allowed to send me cigarettes or Copenhagen chewing tobacco but you could send credit cards and that was no one ever said anything about it that seems wrong it is and nowadays it’s more accidental just because of the level of aggressive you know they’re just chaotic and aggressive in their marketing it’s everywhere I mean they send it to dead people to dogs you know we’ve got we’ve got great credit cards that customers have sent us that was issued to their labador retriever you know or to their poodle and so fru can you know get a line of credit you know just because they’re just sending it everywhere they’re sending it everywhere and and uh you know there’s a whole movement probably 15 years ago where they were all over the college campuses and they pretty well are off the college campuses now uh if they’re just across the property line you know to next door to the college campus doing something but the the thing of them shoving it down a college students um at the behest of the college uh is that’s a lot of that’s gone just because there was so much consumer Uprising against it but they’re still out there I mean they’re still just going it’s what they none of the the supposedly radical lefties um out there calling for a revolution and a total overhaul of our society like they never they never go after the credit card companies you know they mention student loans or they mention you know the big companies or capitalism but they never I’ve never seen any antifa person say hey don’t pay your credit card bill like they for some reason the left even AOC and people like that they they seem like are they bought off by the credit card companies I never hear them attacking the credit card companies ever well I mean we we’re taught again with the most repetitive sophisticated marketing over the longest period of time uh in human history I mean the number of Impressions before your eyes and across your mind we’ve been taught don’t leave home without it we’ve been taught that you know what would you do I mean we have people have physical reactions when they cut up their credit cards I mean they’re they crying they’re shaking really and what that means is what that it’s become an you know it’s become something that is necessary for life it’s an altar that we worship at right and it’s not I mean Daniel Boone did leave home without it I mean we we this is a fairly recent phenomenon in human history it’s not like it’s something that’s gone on forever if you really back to the 1970s even the credit card was you know 25% of Americans carrying a credit card in 1972 I mean there was not it’s it’s fairly recent that it was uh that it’s so pervasive that it’s just necess for life and it’s not I mean I I don’t have credit cards I haven’t you know in 30 something years I have debit cards finally they came out that made life a little better so travel and everything and the debit card will do everything the credit card will do except get you in debt because you actually have to have money in your freaking account in order to spend it but um so I’ve got you know debit cards on my business and debit cards on my personal account and I use it like most people use a credit card I guess what what what’s wrong with having a credit card if you pay the balance every month most people don’t most people don’t that’s that’s the great lie 78% of people don’t no and they all talk around talk about how everybody talks about this theoretical discipline that they just freaking don’t have and so you know um wait 78% roll the balance over month to month just like 97% of the people don’t pay a 30-year mortgage like a 15 so that it pays off in 15 cuz they promis themselves they would we’re going to take out a 30 just in case we need to let up but we’re going to pay it like a 15 97% do not systematically prepay and that’s that’s um you know Federal Reserve statistics I didn’t make those numbers up and so it’s just this idea that we have we trust ourselves with this discipline that’s really just simply not there and so why what’s the purpose what are you getting okay if you’re going to pay your credit card every off every month and you’re really going to do that then a debit card will work because there’s money to pay the credit card off and just use that money through your debit card it’s the exact same freaking thing I mean it’s the exact same thing people do that because they’ve been taught that they can’t live without this and that if you don’t get airline miles then you know as you’re if you don’t get 1% back on your Discover Card which this one tickles me I people with a master’s degree in finance got 1% back on my Discover card so you’re going to run a 100 Grand through your discovery card to get $1,000 back on what planet does that build wealth I mean and under what what math I mean did you get out of the sixth grade where you trade 100K for 1K and you call this a wealth building mechanism that’s just asinine you know but this is people make supposedly sophisticated people will make this argument at me and and they have for 30 years so I’ve got a your argument that they’re just too dangerous you just like there’s no point there’s no point it’s not even it’s that dangerous if you are paying it off every month it’s not going to bankrupt you the other thing is this and again we’re dealing with Joe and suie consumer right I’m not dealing with somebody with a masteress in finance usually uh we’re dealing with uh you know folks making 80 grand and you know he’s a cop she’s a teacher okay and so you know what mit’s study shows us is is that when you swipe plastic uh you’re you spend 12 to 18% more than if you lay down actual cash because cash when you see Benjamin looking at you activates the pain center of the brain and when you do when you swipe it and go one further just take your Apple phone and just use your wallet and you never even see plastic you just moved your phone around like you just returned an email or a text and now you’re walking out a Home Depot with another tool right and uh that’s even less friction and you less friction is your website my website where they just push a button or Amazon push a button and the the recognition in your brain that you’re actually spending money goes down precipitously why they have chips in a casino exactly exactly exactly they would never it’s why they take uh taxes out of our check if you had a guy standing at the end of your uh office every Friday named Matthew the tax collector from the Bible and you had to hand him your tax money out of your check there’d be a revolution in America cuz people would recognize emotionally with the pain centers of their brain what they’re actually paying in taxes it’s the same thing here it’s just friction and marketing we call it you call it I call it on our websites and we want to lower friction we make it easy for the customer to buy where they don’t feel any pain and they buy more it’s a simple AR you know it’s a simple Arrangement but uh if you have to actually lay down $100 bills and you know Rachel my daughter teaches with us and she brought up the point which I had never thought of that when you hand someone a piece of plastic at the store they hand you the groceries or the shirt back with the plastic when you them money they just hand you the shirt that’s more like a trade at the old Trading Post Yeah I’m trading you this for that yeah with plastic I get the plastic back visually and the item and I’m no again no recognition are we do we intellectually grasp it but I’m talking about emotional psychological recognition that actual transaction has just occurred and so we spend more that’s what it comes down to and so we’re spending more a big picture there’s a weird incentive here because there the forces of totalitarianism want to get rid of cash of course because it cash cannot be controlled in the way that digital currency can be controlled all of our cash comes through the banks the government gets us cash through banks but banks have a massive incentive to get rid of cash also because they’re profiting from credit cards very and very labor intensive to screw with the cash well exactly uh and dirty by the way yeah um so Banks have once again every incentive to eliminate the use of cash in the United States well and again it it’s we go how far we want to go on on on how uh evil the intent is from the bottom up and how organize the evil is I don’t know about I’m just saying but the incentives are the incentives are there but what I’m saying is that I could go either way I can go real deep into that personally or I can say ah they’re just not real good at it but the they are collecting our data and when you’re operating cash you’re off the grid well exactly one more place I had thought of that that I can I can I can tell you exactly what is happening with Joe and Susie and so it’s gone so far as to the um the collections departments with some of the large credit card companies are so scummy they’re very good at what they do but if a zip if an area code comes in and someone’s returning a call to a collector from the south the person’s calling from the south they’ll put someone on with a uh a New York accent because that’s abrasive to someone with the South and you want to create an abrasive situation with a collector if they’re calling into customer service they’ll match them up with an with a uh an accent that’s Pleasant to them and so on really yeah oh it’s they’re very buted Southerners get Yankee collectors and vice versa cuz you want to piss a Yankee off bring a passive aggressive Southerner in you know it’s like right so you know now honey right I mean that’s not going to go well so that’s not good for a New Yorker and so it it’s just they’re it’s just a they’re very very good at what they do and they collect data and they use the data to sell us more and I mean Google’s doing that we know that we know Apple’s doing that that’s not it’s not rocket surgery we know this is going on but so cash gets you off the grid cash represents freedom so it is antithesis for totalitarianism the the ability cash I feel like people don’t use cash anymore not not as much not as much it’s way down it’s way down one of the last places I gave up using cash was at the pump pumping gas because I used to always walk in and pay cash I had cash for my gas I had cash for our grocery we still pay cash for our groceries at the Ramsay Sharon still carries an envelope with cash in it in our purse for it says Groceries on it and to this day it’s how we started our stuff years ago it’s what we teach but I I’m too lazy to walk into the stupid gas and pay the bill now but here’s the thing again one more time think about it when gas went 20 years ago gas moves up to five bucks for 10 minutes if you had to walk in the store and you’re paying cash all of a sudden the cost of gasoline is a much more passionate political issue of course than when we’re just sticking a card in ah crap it just I can’t believe it was 100 bucks and you walk off and you’ll think anything about it but if you walk to the store from the pump and you put down by the time you get back to the truck you’re pissed oh for sure you know and so nowadays when gas goes up it’s kind of like ah look gas went up and or did it I not sure how much was it under Trump how much is it under Biden you know and people that it it doesn’t again it doesn’t register because the pain centers aren’t activated and and now it becomes a political thing because it’s not uh the cost of that uh is not waking you up so the cost of eggs if you were paying cash in the grocery store in this last routine eggs were the thing remember not long ago we were all done a die CU eggs were too expensive the Biden inflation right so but if you were paying cash for it there’ have been egg Wars I mean it’s like so it’s it’s it’s so they’re allowing us SLE it’s very interesting yeah we’re we’re lazy so how much um debt is the average American carrying on credit cards 37,000 37 per like per mhm yeah that’s the current averages I mean depending on who you read and who you believe I have we haven’t done that research at Ramsey but we’ve we’ve looked it up I mean $37,000 yes at what interest rate I 18 to 28 is the range on on cars well that’s just crazy town yeah yeah and if you had $37,000 in credit card debt wouldn’t you be scared uh they are and so when the cost of bread goes up and supply chain screws with their grocery basket cost uh it’s not it’s a very real fear then why is not a single per I never I I just I can’t get past this of all the villains in public life well you’re you’ve been attacked I’ve noticed um and a lot of virtuous people have been attacked I never hear the credit card companies attacked by anyone ever but they seem like one of the main causes of misery for Americans yeah we have we’ve attacked them in for 30 years but mainly attacking the stuff like we’re talking about right here is present people with ideas and they go huh I’m getting screwed I’m going to stop this and they make a change and they cut up their cards we call it plastic surgery right they chop them up they get out of debt and they’ll never go back once once they’ve had that but there is a big I mean all debt is obviously in my opinion bad one of the reasons I’m so grateful for your role in our society reminding people of that but not all debt is the same if I’m paying 4% on a mortgage that’s very different from paying 25% % on a credit card exactly sure I mean that’s just insane that people pay well you’ve got one thing that’s going up in value and the other is a steak you at ate last night it’s pretty much gone you so so we were at a meeting here at TCN the other day and I looked around the room and every other person had a kind of Ruddy Vitality of Pink Cheeks alertness Bright Eyes full mental acuity and a cheerfulness you could almost smell and I asked why does everyone look look so good and part of the answer of course is they like what we do for a living it’s really interesting we think it’s important but another reason everyone looks so good is because they had all had a great night sleep I’m not making this up almost everybody here uses a new sleep technology from a company called Eight sleep they sent it to us and everyone here loves it it’s called The Pod it’s a high-tech mattress cover effectively that you add to your existing bed you don’t need a new bed or anything like that you just throw this over what you have what it does is adjusts the temperature of your bed warmer or cooler depending on what you want and it maintains an ideal sleeping environment all night long so I didn’t know this but as you progress through different phases of sleep your body’s needs change an eight sleep automatically keeps things exactly where they should be in The Sweet Spot through the entire night it’s been proven to incre increase the quality of your sleep the amount you sleep every night it improves your recovery time from physical exertion and it may even improve your cognitive performance and enhance enhance your overall health it seems to be doing that in our office so it learns and adapts to your sleep patterns over time and automatically adjusts temperatures throughout the night through each phase of sleep and it does this independently for each sleeper on either side of the bed that’s pretty cool so you can sleep well and feel much better and be more effective the next morning as we are here try it for yourself go to 8sleep.com Tucker use the promo code Tucker to get an extra 350 bucks off the Pod 4 ultra you can try it with zero obligation for a month and if you don’t like it just send it back again that’s 8sleep.com Tucker better sleep today and look great in your morning meetings as our guys do I understand so the um the states the state of New York um and the federal government you know spent decades a century putting Mafia figures in prison for lone sharking lone sharking and that was lending money at high interest rates because it was against it was unfair it was considered a well it was a crime think it still is a crime how was it not a crime when the credit card companies do it um I don’t know I I’m I I I’m I’m I’m a free market guy I would I would rather punish them by taking their customers than than by providing regulation I I get it I’m not even calling for regulation but I’m saying that it’s regulated when the genevi family does it but not when City Bank does it so how does that work yeah and how does uh payday lending still open at 800% interest 800 yeah 800% interest and these are poor people they’re they’re leaning on so this is particularly bad it’s funny cuz that someone like AOC you know obviously protector of black people and the urban poor like I’ve haven’t heard her say one word I mean it seems like everybody is kind of colluding against lower inome people yeah and it’s um it’s biblically unsound I mean it’s a bad idea what does that mean if you if you read in the scripture you don’t want to be on the list of the person who takes who oppresses the poor the orphan or the Widow that’s not a good list to be on if you’re if you have any idea that there might be a God yes because the things that happens to the people people that oppress the poor the orphan and the Widow are not good you you’re supposed to take care of the poor and take care of the Widow and take care of the orphan and it’s quite the opposite um and and you don’t we don’t see that kind of Sanctified capitalism as much as we should I don’t see really any of it it’s out there there’s PE there’s lots of good companies that do take care of their team they take care of their employees they take care of their customers the customer comes in and they go this lady just is you know she’s her husband just passed away she’s got little kids and she can’t eat and they’ll take care of I companies do that everywhere Americans are unbelievably generous generous culture in the history of the world and that comes through small business it comes through uh even big business sometimes Americans are the best is their institutions are rotten and it does seem like maybe that’s the problem if you could just reform some of the big institutions it would be a much happier country with fewer oppressed people um but 800% not a payday loan it’s a you take out a you write a $250 check uh for two weeks yeah Advance on your uh on your uh paycheck coming in and they hand you $200 and so it’s $50 charge it’s loan Shing rates and that’s not that horrible so to speak because if that’s all there is but if you renew that all the way through one year it’s 8 164% and so um that and that’s the typical payday lender some states out louded payday lenders completely others are quote unquote regulating them but um those people are feeding on the poor cuz I got I got a promise you the wealthy people are not going in there and doing a $200 to $250 transaction it’s not they’re not middle class people aren’t even and so it’s the same thing as the rent to the same rent to own title pawning you know same end of town you see these can you explain rent to own uh rent own is you take a ,000 washer and dryer and you pay for it six or eight times monthly because you’re renting it and then they let you own it at the end of it by the time it’s almost worn out but the again the you could have taken your monthly and gone to a garage sale and bought a good use set yeah and has zero debt zero payments but again no one that’s middle class or upper class Falls for that junk you don’t see those things in the rich end of town no you don’t you see them when you go into the other side of town the other side of the tracks I mean credit cards are I think so embarrassing it’s almost like a drug habit you know nobody wants to talk about credit card debt if the average American in who has a credit card is $37,000 in debt at over 20% interest I mean that’s like that’s the craziest thing I’ve heard this week and that includes you and me which have zero we’re talking an average yeah I mean I’ve had someone else has more in order to get to that average if you and I have zero right yeah I’m not good at math and I’ve I’m not good at business I’m not good at managing money I’ve definitely had money problems big-time money problems but I’ve never had credit card debt because even I low IQ with numbers guy could understand like 20% interest is a lot more than 6% interest yeah you know I I don’t want that so um huh what what happens to a person who’s $37,000 in debt who makes $60,000 a year in in credit card debt um too many negative things to count but um number one cause a divorce in North America today money fights money stress seriously number one things people fight about in their marriage by far so we’ve got a socioeconomic impact um if you lose hope because you feel like a rat in a wheel and it’s I ow I owe softw workk I go thank God it’s Friday oh God it’s Monday and I just look up 40 years later and I retire broke because I put nothing in my 401k cuz it’s all gone out in payments every month all the money comes in all the money goes out then you have to retire and say gosh I hope the government which is well known for its ability to handle money will take care of me and now we’re teing Social Security which even according to the Socialists that put it in place called it a supplement right not the a retirement plan it’s not a retirement plan it’s not designed to eat I mean if you try to retire on Social Security you’re eat Alpo I mean it’s rough and so you retire broke you have a higher likelihood of divorce uh hypertension goes up anxiety goes up um so there’s medical bills go up as a result U because it’s it’s a constant stress in your life over long period of time and and so we’ve had people of course over the 30 years of doing what we’re doing they often say wow when I got out of that I paid off my car when I got rid of a MasterCard when I got rid of the student loan that had been around so long I thought thought it was a pet when I you know even when I had a this week I had a lady 34 years old paid off her house and zero debt 34 years old and 600,000 already in her 401K at 34 years old I said so how does that feel she say I feel like I sat down 300 lb and I walked away from it she said there’s this release physically she said my shoulders feel different and and so you cannot completely go this is only a math thing because it’s integrated into our lives right and um you know and uh so yeah we’re starting to see now the implications of it you know on a society as a whole uh you know medical bills uh again divorce rate and it’s not the only sole cause of all those things but it’s certainly a contributor and and sometimes it works in Reverse sometimes the medical causes the problem the financial problem right sometimes it’s the other way sometimes the marriage situation causes the fin cial problem so there’s not all uh correlation and causation directly but but there’s enough interaction with that that there’s no reason to say I’m going to live my whole life hopeless working in a job I hate just to pay the truck payment uh because somebody at a stoplight might go thumbs up they like my truck you know and it’s I’m trying to impress other people that I don’t even know and money I don’t have and uh it it’s it’s a sickening thing it’s consumerism gone to muck but the good news is people can decide we’re going to change and they turn the corner and man it’s beautiful when they do there are a lot of impediments to doing that so one thing that you hear when you start lecturing people about credit cards as I’ll confess I have um is well you have to have a credit card because you have to build a credit rating if you don’t have a credit card you don’t get a credit rating and you and for some reason you need a credit card rating I’m sure you’ve heard this no never of course yeah far ISAC designed the FICO score the FICO score there’s a mathematical algorithm by which your FICO score your credit score is derived 100% of the inputs to build your credit score have to do with debt the type of debt your ratio of debt um whether or not you’re paying your debt on time which is what we all think of when we think of a credit score uh it’s 100% interaction with debt your FICO score has nothing to do with your financial well-being nothing it has nothing to do with your net worth so you could inherit a million dollars tomorrow from your Rich uncle that died and your credit score doesn’t change one point your boss can walk in and say I’m going to give you a million dollar a year raise on your income your FICO does not change one point it has 100% to do with borrowing money and so the whole premise of the thing is almost humorous when you look at it so I need a FICO score so I’m going to go get a credit card take out a car loan I’m 18 years old so I can build up my FICO score why do I need a FICO score because that’s the score they use to decide to loan me money so I need a FICO score so that I can get into debt so I’m going to get into debt so that I can get a FICO score so I can get into debt so that I can raise my FICO score so that I can get into debt so so that I can raise my FICO score so that I can get into debt so that I can keep my FICO score up by paying my debt and getting into more debt because if you quit paying on your all your accounts they take them all to zero you pay them all off and you close 100% of your accounts within 6 to n months your FICO score will be zero so I’ve not had a FICO score in 38 years mine’s indeterminable which means I’m probably not even real probably not you’re a spectre a ghost I mean you think you would think and and you know and I own several hundred million dollars wor the real estate you know so here’s what’s asinine about this whole thing I can go down to the local apartment complex in our little town of Franklin Tennessee that’s managed by a 26-year-old who has a boss in Atlanta Georgia right who’s telling them how to how to Le an apartment and they won’t lease an apartment to me because I don’t have a FICO score now I can write a check and buy the apartment complex but I can’t rent an apartment there see that shows you how inep this measure of wealth is or of financial well-being and it is a dog chasing its tail why am I going into debt so I can get a FICO score why well so you’re looking at it because I think you’re a more decent person than I am as silly and not an accurate measurement I’m looking at it as a very Sinister system intentionally created to enslave people with debt that’s what it looks like to me yeah it is no you’re you’re right um it’s just the ridiculous logic that we the people have fallen for that allowed them to do that well so here’s a non potentially non- ridiculous concern that I have heard as I’ve been lecturing some people may or may not be my children on this question oh because I hate credit cards but they say well um if I don’t have a good credit rating I won’t be able to take a home loan out to buy a house and I’m not really sure how you get to a place where you can buy a house in cash at 30 well it has been done and and we’ve got lots of stories where it has been done but aside from that um again just bad information uh the truth is you can get a home mortgage with a zero credit score um George camell one of our Ramsey personalities he and his wife uh bought a very very nice home not long ago and got a small mortgage on it they paid off in about 9 months good for them but um he went and got a mortgage with a zero credit score uh it’s called manual underwriting so when I got my real estate license in 1978 if you sold a house in those days there was no FICO score if you sold a house in those days you went to the mortgage company or the savings and loan that was still open in those days and you took the client over there and the client filled out several pieces of paper a VOD that were they gave per permission for the bank to verify the deposits verification to deposit do you have a money in your bank for a down payment you had to prove it a VOE verification of employment they send it to your employer employer sent it back said you have a job you make this much money so you have your down payment you make this much money a verification of payments so you send that to the landlord and the landlord where they were renting would say yes Joe pays his rent so now Joe can get and so it was called underwriting a mortgage they actually looked at the human beings and said are these human beings is it good for them to have a mortgage and are they going to be able to pay it and they did math and research on the people and it took about 45 days to get a mortgage in those days you know it took a while because they had this was all snail mail you know back and forth but they that’s called underwriting a mortgage nowadays you can do manual underwriting much faster than that but all they’re doing is checking the person all these different elements of the personhood and see if the person is going to be able to pay their stinking mortgage it’s that simple so that’s George and many many many many other Ramsey followers over the years tens of thousands of them have gotten a mortgage with a zero credit score so you just go to the bank and say I’d like to take a loan well you have to go to a a mortgage lender that actually knows how to do a manual underwriting because a lot of them don’t and again they’re too many of them are lazy because are the rates different nope nope exactly the same exactly the same and exactly the same down payment requirement exactly the same everything it’s just more work for the mortgage company cuz basically the FICO score is a monkey can make this loan they can look at the number and identify wo big number loan done just like that check it’s over it that’s the whole thing and that’s how you get a housing crisis in 2008 is they were approving these loans based exclusively on FICO not actually looking at the human beings and in some cases they were fraudulently putting up FICO and proa putting values on it and so forth but we get a housing wait wait wait so you can game your credit score the F score no I’m saying those people were putting down false credit scores in that case but or they’re walking in I’ve got a high credit score but nobody mentions I just lost my job nobody mentions I bought five houses four weeks ago that that are not yet showing up in all of this data right and um and then because they’re just handing this money out like it’s candy if you’ve got the number it’s all about the numbero have you got the number o no you don’t it’s it’s that a monkey can run this business good monkey sounds these These are good yeah so very good have you spent time around monkeys obviously yeah you and I are having way too much fun last night I’m just saying so the here’s the other so that’s fascinating I didn’t know that thank you um the second concern would be that if you’re not carrying debt on your house you’re penalized by the tax code because you can write off the interest on on your loan yeah and so when I went to pay off my mortgage which was the very first thing I did when I made any money at all I was uh criticized strongly by a friend of mine who’s knowledgeable uh on financial matters who’s gotten way richer than I’ll ever be and he said that’s idiotic why would you do that you’ve got a low rate and the government is paying you to have that mortgage not true not true um it’s true for a such a small percentage of the population so here’s the thing the only T person who can write off the interest on their home mortgage is someone who itemizes their deductions particularly under Trump and they’re still in place Biden has not undone them the standard deduction on a 1040 is so stinking high now that 92% of Americans do not itemize your charitable deductions are not of zero value if you don’t itemize your interest deductions are of zero value on your tax return if you do not itemize and so only 8% of Americans does this apply to okay which could be you you could you know you’ve got a complicated businesses you probably are itemizing you’re probably not doing a standard 1040 easy um because you’re you’ve got deductions in excess of the standard deductions which would make you want to do the itemization me too by the way and so now let’s go to that case for for the 8% we got rid of 92% uh but let’s go ahead and go with the eight so let’s say that you uh pay I’ll make up a number $10,000 in interest any a year you give 10,000 ,000 to the bank in interest if you are in a 30% tax bracket you take a $10,000 tax deduction that means you don’t pay taxes on $10,000 of your income follow me yes so if you didn’t have that deduction you’d have to pay taxes on $10,000 more see taxes on $10,000 would be $3,200 if you’re in a 32% tax bracket right so what your friend is suggesting is that it’s a good idea to send the bank $10,000 to keep from sending the government 3200 ah once again doesn’t make sense cultural mythology so there is no downside in your view to paying off your mortgage no none whatsoever and here’s the thing it feels different well that’s why I I did it anyway you walk through your backyard with no shoes on the grass is different man I mean we have a fouchy pandemic they’re not taking my house yeah that’s how I feel it’s a whole different thing it’s a it’s a liberty issue it’s a freedom issue it’s a math issue uh it’s a spiritual issue the borrower is slave to the lender it’s tough to serve two masters Jesus said I don’t have two masters I don’t know anybody it’s a completely different setting the number of times my wife and I have a discussion about a house payment is precisely zero cuz we haven’t had one in 30 plus years you know I mean this is nuts I agree with that 100% it’s just so countercultural it is I remember reading the culture’s broke let’s keep this in mind well and and also the the people who are profiting from this are absolutely in charge I I’ve always thought of you as the least controversial most mainstream wholesome person ever and I remember reading a piece on The Daily Beast just just attacking you and I was like why why attack Dave Ramsey is not even explicitly political or not you know what I mean like oh I get it I get it I I don’t get it quite as hot as you get it but I get it but it’s interesting and that’s clearly at the behest of people who are profiting from this this system of financial enslavement they’re mad yeah and sometimes it’s just you’re if you put a message out there that makes someone feel like what they’re doing is dumb it’s convicting and that makes that person rise up and come after us it’s not even like Visa wrote them a check or something to come after Dave it’s just like Dave said that your whole life that you’re living and believe is stupid and instead of actually looking at that they get pissed off how big is uh what percentage of our economy is money lending I I’m not sure but huge I’m not sure it’s it’s easily 15 15th yeah energy uh healthc care real estate um real estate um money lending I mean that’s it’s got to be there that’s the big ones right yeah Tech now Tech yep I mean there’s about six buckets that 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understand each other pretty well and they’re responsive no contract no cancellation fees 30-day money back guarantee Pure Talk is easy to switch to the average family saves almost 1,000 bucks a year when they switch try it go to Pur talk.com Tucker and you’ll save an additional 50% off your very first month that’s Pur talk.com Tucker switch your sales service to a company you can be proud to do business with so what happen happen Okay so I just back to the um example of the person who makes 80 grand a year um and has got $37,000 in credit card debt at over 20% interest how does that person get out of that like what happens to that person you said it puts enormous stress on the marriage on the body every part of your life but how do you can you get out of that much debt if you’re oh they we have people pay off hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt every week they come on the show doing what we call a debt-free scream wonderful wonderful stories there’s like 2,000 of them posted on a YouTube channel of people doing that free screams over and over and over and over again then what they did we ask them what’ you do what’ you do how’d you do it when we told you to get on and first thing they do is they get on a budget you know they lay out a plan because if you were taking over a company and the company was in trouble you’d come in and look at their financials and you’d go okay what’s going on what’s going on here why is this thing failing why is it why did I buy it at a at a nickel on the dollar what’s going on here and so you immediately start doing a simple analysis and really here’s the interesting thing you don’t have to be a math genius as a matter of fact sometimes the people that aren’t math geniuses do a lot better at this stuff CU they just sit down they look and go I had one old country boy he he came into one of our uh small group discussions in Financial Peace University one night and he said we discovered why we ain’t got no retirement we’ve been eating it you know he had $1,240 a month average on restaurants and he couldn’t figure out why he couldn’t fund his kid college fund and and couldn’t figure out why he had no retirement and couldn’t figure out why he couldn’t get out of debt because they’re living in a stinking restaurant and had no money and they’re spending money they don’t have and oh got a $800 car payment on a truck and I’m like God man how much is your house payment $700 dude if your truck payment is bigger than your house payment you might be a redneck I mean seriously so we get you know we’ve had a lot of fun discussions with people but basically what we’re say what we tell them is get on a written plan the two of you together husband and wife have to be committed to this and then you go on scorched Earth no eating out no going out no vacations uh take six extra Jobs sell so much stuff the kids think they’re next and let’s start let’s get this thing moving in the right sell so much the kids think they’re next I said don’t put I said put the cat on Craig’s List and the dog on eBay one morning on National Television Peta started PR picketing me the next day so cuz they don’t have a sense of humor I was a joke but the uh I love my dog I’m not putting it on eBay but the uh um anyway we uh so yeah you just change the numbers because usually they have enough money coming in to turn the corner usually maybe they got to sell the truck to get rid the $800 payment and get you a $4,000 truck and maybe you’re running Uber or delivering pizzas or mowing grass or uh the number of people that have uh College four-year college degrees that have elected to become made or open a commercial cleaning service and clean toilets cuz the money is really good for a short period of time to get their mess cleaned up so that they never have a payment again the rest of their lives people will fight to be free if they believe they can hope deferred makes the heart sick but when desire comes it is the tree of life you know so when you believe people will change they’ll chase the gates of hell where is that quote from Proverbs can you say that again hope deferred makes the heart sick hopelessness but when desire comes it is the tree of life when you believe then you’ll change the G you charge the gates of hell with a water pistol you you you don’t care suddenly what your broke friends are laughing at you for driving a hoopie because I’m getting out of debt because I’m going to change my family tree cuz my kids are not going to have to live the way I live because I’m going to pay a price to win when you get that thing going oh yeah that oh I’ve had it going you get the tunnel vision and you and your wife you and your husband are both doing that you work and I the thing is you don’t have to drive a junk car the rest of your life you don’t have to work an extra job the rest of your life it’s 18 to 24 months and most of these people are out everything but their house and so it’s a period of time and you’re not going to die from hard work right before you die from hard work you pass out it’s okay you’re not going to die from hard work it’s a short period of time it’s a Sprint I don’t want people to live their whole lives like that but instead they’re living their whole lives just kind of in this Malay stuck and so we our whole thing is to shake them and say you can do this and show them and give them hope and make them believe they can do it and the neat thing is is we proven it millions of times now so um you don’t think if I’m deep in credit card de it’s not a good idea to get a couple more credit cards and use those to pay off the first one yeah get out the way we get out of a holes we dig out the bottom I know you’ve seen that though a lot oh yeah yeah yeah yeah the debt consolidation programs so what about okay so what about that so people who were deep credit card you’re moving your debt to a lower interest rate but interest rate wasn’t your problem overspending was your problem and not living on a plan because no one plans to be stupid no one plans to be broke to where they can’t breathe or their chest is tight where there’s a tear in their eye on Friday because they know after I worked all week this check’s already gone no one plan that’s not a plan some that you fall backward into that you don’t walk into that with knowledge but when you start running a plan it turn it changes everything it turns the corner and and so people can do this stuff I’m you know again we’ve seen it so many millions and millions of times now but there are all these services that advertise to people who are in Hopeless credit card debt we will consolidate your debt um well what happens when they do that you move your I’m sorry I got off track you move your debt over here and you don’t change your habits of spending more than you make and so the debt grows back and so the people that the the the people that do lending there’s two types of debt consolidation there’s these Services you see on cable TV right and that’s not lending all they do there is tell people not to pay their credit cards for six months and they’ll take over all these defaulted accounts and negotiate them for pennies on the dollar and try to walk you out that way in the meanwhile destroying your credit worse than if you have filed a bankruptcy so that’s a complete freaking con but the is it really oh it’s it’s nasty it’s a nasty business and the one that why what’s bad about it well because every they’re current on their credit cards they could have paid their debts off and instead their method of becoming debt-free is quit paying payments destroy your reputation your credit okay don’t as if you file bankruptcy right and then after your credits are you credit cards are six months behind credit card companies will take 25 30 cents on the dollar for that and so these companies will go in and go okay we’ll pay you payments at 25 or 30 cents on the dollar and they set up a new payment on the reduced amount and knock it out in well onethird the time right and so um and it it’s um I mean to me if someone has the ability to pay their payment they should pay their payment it’s a moral thing to mean an ethical thing I don’t like that they got into that I don’t like that they got duped by an industry that’s out to Slit their throat I don’t like any of that but you signed up for this you’re like a grown-up like student loans so you can you need to pay it and we can show you how to pay the whole stinking thing if you can pay the current payments I can get you out of debt I don’t have to destroy your reputation and put you in the uh dead beak category so to speak in order to do that the other kind of Bor the other kind of consolidation loan is an actual loan where a bank will loan say a second mortgage or home equity loan and you know we’ll take all the credit cards 20 $37,000 worth of them make it a second mortgage on the home and now I have a lower interest rate on the total 37,000 pay off all the credit cards with loan and now we’re going to pay that second mortgage down and it’s a lower interest rate so hypothetically you would think you would get out of Interest out of debt faster that way but you don’t change your habits you just moved the debt kept the habits so we keep going out to eat we keep going I get it I get it but just back two clicks to something you said and I admire your integrity on the question of repaying loans that you signed up for I I get that on the other hand if you can if you can but on the other hand another way to look at it would be if someone’s addicted to drugs and it’s a voluntary thing I’m buying fentanyl every week or every day on the other hand the person who’s selling me fentanyl is also a criminal you know and so I’ve often thought if I you know if ever were to retire maybe I would start a political movement a new party in the country where the whole purpose is to bring the banks to their knees and shut them down or just you encourage everyone who’s deep in debt to stop payment like how about a 100 million people stop paying their car loans their mortgages and their credit cards and then in the same way that Donald Trump once said if you take a big enough loan from the bank it’s their problem it’s their problem you’re kind of in charge of the bank at that point I would think it’d be kind of cool to do a crush the banks political party where you just all of a sudden everyone stops payment at once and then you know then you sit down with Jamie Diamond and renegotiate yeah what about that I kind of like that well um there’s other implications to that uh I’m sure look I know nothing but I’m acting out of hostility in my head I appreciate it but I mean it’s uh I again I would rather punish them incrementally Y and just let the demand for their uh horrible product dry up over time Y and let that be reflected a little bit at a time in their stock price instead of one morning in their stock price one morning in the stock price all the banks are broke feels a lot like 2008 and that’s a pretty cha a lot of Downstream effects pretty pretty chaotic situation for the world no all banks go go Belly Up in day one I I don’t I don’t mind the idea that they become less profitable over the next I got it this is why you’re responsible person and I’m not but it it is why I’m not in politics it’s this Revenge no I think you’re taking the Long View which is you don’t want to wreck your country just because there are some bad actors who live within its borders I completely agree and thank you for being sensible I’m not sensible I’m just mad but um just one more question on this dark little thought experiment that would bring the banks to their knees like day one right oh yeah yeah well that’d be kind of fun wouldn’t it yeah it’d be fun if you did it for 20 minutes just to get their attention and reset the American mindset that now that might be cool I think I’m going to do this if you did if you did a one month for for two months we don’t pay payments now that would not destroy the world economy but um never we’re going to pay them again and you get 50% of the public to do that yeah you could screw up the whole world economy with one but uh no I don’t want to do that one but the but if but for two months yeah again though it’s a little bit like student loan forgiveness you know student loans there’s no question uh that our federal government and the banking industry has duped now the third generation into going deeply in debt no question about it and their parents stood by and the notee and these quote young adults who are old enough to um do whatever else they can do they can they can sign a contract legally in any state in America uh to do anything else we we call them adults whether they emotionally are or not we can argue but um they signed up for this I had a student loan I signed up for it it was not a little small one it was no back when dinosaurs roam the Earth but um but the um how much was your student loan $3,500 actually yeah 3522 when I paid it off yeah wow was it worth it no no no the only reason I did it is I could not figure out any other way because no one ever and even in those days and that was so long ago I mean this was what 40 years ago 45 years ago it’s it was a different mindset then even that um that these things are dangerous and now it’s like well you’re not allowed to be a student without a student loan it’s now it’s it’s completely come the other way to where you’re some kind of like paying off your mortgage or some kind of if you don’t take out a student loan of course you have to take out a it’s assumed and that again we’ve shifted the cultural uh belief system to where parents don’t tell us kid hey maybe you should go to the local college that we can pay cash for instead of going across the state line and the family goes $125,000 in debt so you get a degree in sociology so you can make 38,000 as a case worker with the state this is not good Roi maybe the parents need to step up but I don’t understand in the whole debate over student loans why the beneficiaries of these loans which are not the students H are never discussed they have no skin in the game whatsoever this whole system exists to benefit colleges universities there’s no question and they exist not to benefit students but to sustain these massive payrolls of Administrators Dei people a lot of dumb people and then the professors most of whom are totally evil yeah and no one ever suggested they should pay some of the cost to this I don’t disagree with it at all like so how does that here’s the thing I I I resent as a taxpayer that a politician says I should pay for the Forgiveness of student how about midbury college what these I’d be fine if they did it I’d be fine if the you know the the the endowments that are billions and billions and billions of they already pay high taxes on those end oh you’re killing me oh wait they don’t pay any taxes right so Duke University which is totally filthy um and it’s actually colleges like that are one of the reasons our country’s falling apart where do you think all these ideas come from anti-human anti- civilizational anti-American they’re all coming from those campuses and they’re not paying any taxes at all we’re subsidizing them and then when their scam gets exposed we have to clean it up yeah we so how does that work so when a politician says I’m going to forgive student loans um you know I I have sympathy and empathy both for the student loan borrower that’s end up over their head because they’re they got duped uh and they’re an adult and they signed up for it and so the same thing’s true of our bank discussion get you signed up for that car payment you know I walked in there one time and know my 20s and impuls a car you know you that’s just is that a verb now that’s what that’s what that’s what you call going deeply in debt for a car you can’t afford just cuz I wanted it right then the smell of toxic plastic coming off a new car makes rich Corinthian leather yes yes what kind of car was it oh man I’ve done so many dumb things the biggest one I did that was stupid was I bought a Jaguar a jaguar in my 20s yeah because I was making money I was in the real estate business and I thought I was hot stuff and I needed to prove it by what I drove how that’s a vehicle my mother had one growing up and you had to take it in and they had to I think lift the engine out to change the oil I the whole thing was and it broke every week it it was um yeah it was a Les it was a life lesson was it a cool was it a cool car though it was a great car it was a beautiful car yeah but um and I really thought I was hot stuff and it was um but see what was broken there was it the car industry was it the bank no Dave Dave was an arrogant little twerp who wanted to show somebody that he was somebody because of what he drove how shallow is that you know but that’s Dave da and Dave signed up for that and that car took my freaking head off really what happened well it was part of the bankruptcy when we lost everything in our 20s that car was still sitting there in the middle of that mess I were you married oh yeah barely yeah yeah we got married the second child Rachel was born the year we filed bankruptcy and so so with a brand new baby and a toddler and a marriage Hanging On by a thread we got the opportunity to start over because doofus here signed up for so much debt and it took my took me down the car was the minor part of it but you know how much debt did you have we had uh $4 million worth a real estate by the time I was 26 starting from nothing and $3 million worth a debt on it so we were 70 or 70% leveraged 80% leverage that’s not um an unusual ratio though no it’s it was a lot of it was short-term notes we were doing flip this house before chip and Joanna were born and so um there was no cable TV to show you how we were just buying and selling real estate and you know I had a million 2 in 90day notes and I if got rid of a house if a house came up to the end of the 90 days and hadn’t sold we just paid the interest on it the banker renewed it because I was always making money on them I was good at it but then the bank got sold to another bank and uh they called our notes uh because they looked down and said 26y old H is a million to on shortterm notes on house flipping whatever that is and um so then yeah uh the second largest lender heard we were in trouble so called another 800 so we had less than 6 months to come up with 2 million bucks and it was all in real estate had no cash it was all in real estate and that started the crash that um took 2 and a half years completely done fo and then what did you say to your wife um I mean I had dinner with her last night you seem to have a really happy marriage that’s my that was my observation so obviously it worked this was 30 years ago this is 1988 so yeah we did not have a happy marriage then though she would have left but she didn’t have a car I’m looking at it right now she’s she’s not yeah we were um but I mean we were just scared little kids with little babies and you know we were just trying to the water got cut off at the house the lights got cut off at the house you know we we were just struggling and so when these this was not a clean or pretty bankruptcy no this was not a this was not a politically correct bankruptcy this was a um this was a freaking disaster because again I’m old school I grew up hillbilly and you pay your bills yeah and so we were paying everything as best we could and we did everything we sold everything in sight we sold a bunch of the real estate we almost turned the corner but we didn’t make it and we got sued so many times it was unbelievable and they were all correct suits I mean there were lawsuits because I didn’t pay the bill lot defaulted stuff so we finally hit bottom and what and you had two little kids yeah and we were so scared man so people call me on the air I can still hear that instantly in their voice yeah I can hear I I start look at the numbers and I go you’re really scared aren’t you and they start crying they’re terrified you know and so uh yeah it’s um the worst thing that ever happened to me the best thing that ever happened to me uh I met God on the way up I got to know him on the way down yeah well that’s that’s yeah so we started decided we’re going to handle money Grandma’s way and biblical what the Bible says and it’s all just common sense and live on less than you make live on a plan get out of debt and uh we started doing it and people said what are you doing this is y’all look different and so we started teaching a few people here and there and all of a sudden you know here we are 43 years later and sitting on this this thing that is happened when we started this show we were looking for a very specific sponsor we wanted to find a company that could send us good meat better than anything you could buy in a grocery store they 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them to one of my buddies and make a spread and so I’d tie up a property at I don’t know let’s make up a number $100,000 that was worth2 200,000 and then I would sell him sell one of my buddies that used to be my competitor selling him that deal for 15 grand i’ make a spread on it and so he could go buy hund pay 115,000 including me for $200,000 property cuz I was buying foreclosures and then I was one so um we know how to do real estate deals and so had a real estate license my whole life just about so we just started doing that I got back up in 19 89 to six figures again and uh that was fast just dug back was income came up but it you know we’re still uh there was no arrogance left I bet that’s right and very little confidence and and we just had a yellowad and every night we would look at the yellow pad and go okay F Foods first feed the babies first water and lights is second and house payments third and gas in the car is fourth and we really do need to get her a better car we need to get her a better car we got to start saving for that oh the heat the light the air conditioner went out today oh good and so we just started pecking down that list pecking down that list pecking down that list every dead gun month and then the list got nicer and nicer and nicer and now on the list there was a cruise and then on the list there was a better car and then on the list there was we weren’t worried about food anymore and we just kept pushing our way through it and then started teaching people wrote a little book How long did it take to go from the world is falling apart bankruptcy to thinking okay now I’ve got it under control under control is a a weird thing for me but um away from Terror yeah uh two years wow where we weren’t terrified and you know we weren’t worried about food or lights or water and that kind of stuff that’s what I mean by Terror and then but then to start to say you know to heal from that experience uh probably never have completely I don’t trust a guy I walk with a limp and so I agree with that most of most of us have had something and that’s something formed who we are amen and um so did you talk every step through with your wife after it crashed yeah that’s what I mean but prior of the crash she I mean we’ve own real estate she didn’t even know of course well I wasn’t hiding it from her but I get it no no I think most I mean she had little kids too she had two little kids she’s managing babies and I’m managing real estate and if I had asked her she would have said whatever you want to do honey that would have been she do her job you’re doing yours you you do whatever you want to do and then later on she goes I had a bad feeling about that yeah well I bet you did you yeah but yeah but that was now today and that from that point forward one of the things that we teach couples and that we’ve used and I’m convinced it’s one of the reasons we’re where we are on the success metric is proverbs 31 says who can find a virtuous wife for her worth is far above rubies one of the greatest greatest sections of the whole Bible her husband safely trusts her and he will have no lack of gain it’s a wealth building principle to listen to your wife that’s that’s the last that’s the last proverb I think that’s that’s the end of the book it is exactly 31 of them you can do one a day like a vitamin and the um but yeah she and so you know she’s got a homech degree she’s been a full-time mom for 39 years and now full-time grandom and um Mimi and so uh but she has uh wisdom and as she says common sense and by the way common sense is so rare in America it’s like having a superpower I agree so um we don’t make large uh charitable contributions we don’t make big real estate decisions big estate planning decisions uh big huge decisions at the office uh at the company without Sharon uh and she looks it over and 99% of the time she says yeah that makes sense Let’s Do It um and sometimes she goes you know I’ve got a bad feeling about that and we always joke cuz she’s from the hills of East Tennessee and say feeling is a seven syllable word a bad feeling but yeah but if she has a bad feeling if I go against it it’s a minimum $10,000 penalty from God so something bad’s going to happen I don’t go against that so that’s a change that you made after bankruptcy and that you Council couples to make as well which is make decision don’t come home and say honey look what I did when you bought a bass boat that’s just that’s really smart no I agree with you and worked it’s huge oh guess what it also works in your marriage it’s called communication when you agree on your spending you’ve agreed on your dreams your fears because all your money flows towards your dreams and your fears you’ve agreed on your plan when you you have to agree on whose parents were going to eat Thanksgiving dinner with to agree on your spending cuz you’re going have to buy gas to go over there and you have to figure out if you’re going to get a hotel or you going to stay in their basement that week I mean Thanksgiving planning here we go get ready so you know when you agree on your money with your spouse it’s massive for your marriage it’ll heal a broken marriage because you start communicating about everything that’s real immediately what do you sense that that is a problem for people oh definitely definitely so how does it in a in the marriages um that you see people you talk to about their marriages and their money how does it normally go what’s what are the unhealthy patterns that people get [Music] in well first I I’ll tell you I didn’t know this when I started I thought I was telling them how to do what a mutual fund was so they could put it in their 401k and here’s how you get out of debt and here’s how you do a budget I thought I was teaching them about money and they would come to Financial Peace University our class and then the class was over they would go hey you saved our marriage and I’m like uh the sex class was down the hall man I’m not I’m not I’m not I don’t have anything to do with that no you made us work together cuz I’m just so practical utilitarian that like I forc them to do a budget together and it force them to deal with all their crap in their marriage and so yeah what are some of the breakdowns it’s a lot of different things uh but some sometimes the worst cases that we see the most heartbreaking ones are where one spouse uh is is kned the the money person yes so the to pay the bills and then things get out of control and they go into debt trying to keep the lifestyle the way it is and don’t bother to tell the other spouse and so that this other spouse when they finally do get in the loop you know there’s $100,000 in credit card Deb lay in there to support a life that we could not afford and uh and so you got deception now and shame yes and condemnation and all these other things mixed in that’re really nasty and then sometimes I get uh uh the neighborhood I grew up in a bluecollar neighborhood uh It’s Not Unusual in those neighborhoods for the wife to handle the money and the guy just goes to work and brings home the bacon yes and um and too often relationally in those situations what ends up happening is the guy who’s working and bringing home the money in that scenario it’s a classic 1950s almost scenario right every every electrician I’ve ever met has his wife through the billing there you of course same thing what what happens too often in that is he’s ends up having to ask his wife for money like she’s his mommy and this maternal thing ends up happening that’s really weird in their marriage where he becomes increasingly Adolescent and doesn’t ever grow up and make grownup decisions with good decision-making paradigms instead he just says well my wife my mommy mommy said I couldn’t go out tonight cuz we don’t have any money and I seem like like as much as I work we’d have some money and then you get that routine and he’s he just I’ve seen that digressing em yeah me too and so I’m I’m always yelling at those guys because they’re my guys I mean that’s that’s that’s who I grew up with and I’m just yelling hey man be a man you’re not a little boy your wife does not want to be married to her baby she wants to be married to a man and quit being his mommy quit being his mommy and taking care of his little self my God you two sit down like two dad gum two dadgum adults and look at this and go we’re stupid and we need to stop being stupid you know look at this we bought you a truck you can’t afford we’ve got a $600 bass boat payment cuz you couldn’t catch a fish with the other one you killing me here and this is this is America this is who we and it’s me too I was the same guy so I got a PhD and DB I I did it worse than all these people put together think about it so I I know what stupid looks like cuz I looked at him in the mirror for a long time so um but yeah you got to get on the same page and you both have to be grown-ups and you know the opposite of that the the I guess the inverse of that is the the sweet little wife who the husband is domineering and takes care of everything and she has no idea what’s going on which was really in a sense where Sharon was when we went broke she was just doing her thing over there and assumed I Had a Brain which was a bad assumption so um you know it’s and then here’s horrible situation with that one that could go on for 40 years and never really have a problem he dies and she is a uh an infant in terms of her ability to even write a check she has no idea where their Investments are she has no idea how to pay a light bill in some cases I’ve met him she’s not even pumped her own gas into her car he’s always done that and and she’s left in this infantile State emotionally and then her grown kids are having to come along and we’re having to train 52-year-old mom how to be like a grownup woman now because she’s been a kept woman you know that saying you know and in that sense and that’s not good for her that’s not good for her she needs to grow up and is and he’s not doing her a favor by taking care of the little woman you know or whatever bull crap is going on in their emotions there so these two thoroughbred horses in the marriage that both step up lock into the same harness at the same speed both with their different giftings but both with the level of responsibility these are the people that build quality families quality legacies and build wealth almost every time it’s incredible to watch so you’re saying that the relationship with your spouse is is a key part of your investment strategy basically all our data says that when we did the largest study of millionaires ever done uh 10,167 of them we found 84% of them say that they the that one of the keys to their Building Wealth was a spouse that worked with them and they did it together in unity dragging a princess for 40 years and still becoming a millionaire is very mathematically difficult dragging a little boy with a bass boat that’s in a stuck in a 37 year old body into wealth is very difficult and again I’m not against bass boats I got three boats okay so we’re not boats are not the thing I’m just picked on that metaphor for some reason today but um but you know that yes yes to answer your question couples that can work together and sometimes when we find that you ask how we get that $37,000 couple $37,000 debt out of debt maybe what we’re doing is teaching them to work together for the first time in their 12 year marriage or there 18-year marriage and and sometimes we’re forcing them to work on these relational things which we didn’t even understand you know we first start doing this but it’s such a key part of it that working together and well I’m going to be into dependent we need separate everything well then why the flip did you get married that’s just the worst marriage ever just a joint venture it’s not even a real marriage I agree with that and like how common is that for married couples to have separate accounts very really very and we get hate mail by suggesting that that’s dumb yeah hate mail lots of it lots of negatives in the comments section you big time so you did this enormous study of of people who’ve been successful um what are the key qualities apart from a functional communicative marriage you know we focused more on what the uh the Tactical money things that they did were okay so where what kind of wealth do you have and what are your components of your net worth and that kind of thing not necessarily what their character qualities were what we did find um is that they’re almost always the tortoise they’re never the hair they’re slow and steady um they often times pick a mut a series of mutual funds for their 401K uh almost never changed them and the mutual funds sometimes most of the time are less than the best they’re like in the top 70% of mutual funds maybe but not the best ones but they still so picking the exact perfect fund turns out not to be the secret sauce the secret sauce is doing the investment every single month for 30 years or actually 17 years was the average to H the first million but the um so just doing that and then and this steadiness with their the frugality they the number of them when I talk to them on the air when they have a$1 to a $5 million net worth we do a millionaire theme hour and they call in and tell us about their lives in that case and the the number of them that drive a Toyota is like staggering we need Toyota like as a sponsor on the Ramsey Show it’s it’s why Toyota yeah I don’t know cu the vehicle Highlander Tundra you know a 2-year-old Tundra a four-year-old Highlander a minivan and it’s like that’s the the car of choice I I get a few Hyundai every now and then but um but Toyota is the vehicle of choice for self-made Millionaires and F150s yeah it’s uh what about silver Ros I don’t hear as much on that I just don’t but um nothing I’m not against silver Ros I’m kind of a Chevy guy but that’s just what I’m seeing so yeah that we’re seeing some of that kind of thing but most of them it’s a fairly simple thing that it’s kind of boring actually like but the numbers were staggeringly uh complete statistically so it’s like in the 80 percentile on most of these numbers uh and it kind of blew our minds that it was that extreme that that um like 80% of them work together with their spouse okay 80% of them um steadily invest for a period of time 80% of them hadn’t bought a new car in 10 years uh 80 a brand new car because the loss in value 80% of them and the in the 80 percenti 84 82 89 89% uh of millionaires eight nine out of 10 in America are not millionaires because of an inheritance now that’s one you hear from the leftist group is the the wealth equ quality garbage that you hear out there that were stuck in America there’s no opportunity in America but 79% inherited precisely zero 5% inherited enough or inherited a large amount after they were already millionaires like they had a million two net worth and they got 200,000 from Mom after that she died or they got 5,000 bucks from grandmother and it was not mathematically anything that impacted them becoming a millionaire and so 8 80 or 795 and five is 89 so we’ve got nine out of 10 are not millionaires because of inherited money so that’s just complete hogwash and this study Tucker is we knew we’d get criticism on it from the lefties and the antifa garbage and all that stuff and some of the press even you know well I don’t know I’ve always heard well I don’t give a crap what you always heard here’s data okay so our uh research methodology on this is freaking airtight matter of fact we had an outside firm look over our shoulder so we didn’t do confirmation buys and because we knew if anybody really dug into the white paper on the thing if we had just screwed around and gathered up a bunch of people that did what I said to do it’s not all Dave tribe 70% not did not know who I am and so these are people that went out and they just you know they’re 42 46 years old 51 years old and that’s the template and they’ve got a paid for house at $600 or $700,000 and they’ve got uh 6 or 800 Grand in their 401K in Roth IRAs and that’s pretty well their first 1.7 or 1.8 now you don’t get to 50 million or 100 million doing that you’re not a billionaire and a billionaire is a thousand million that’s a different formula and much fewer of those out there but I’m talking about can Joe and Susie retire with dignity leave an inherit an change their family tree uh not have to count on the government for support uh not have to pray that they can vote a savior into the White House because they can’t fix their own life can they exist and live the American dream get up leave the cave kill something drag it home and make it you dad gum right they can’t we proved it with data and exciting keep their finances comingled absolutely 100% why don’t people do that you said earlier that you see a lot of people who don’t who have separate accounts um modeling from the last generation for one thing their mom and dad didn’t cuz they don’t trust each other obviously and if you know if they’ve been divorced and remarried then the the scars of the other one the you know you’re superimposing upon your new spouse the idiocy of your last one as one guy said my starter wife you know messed this thing up like your starter wife okay that was your first one okay and uh but I mean that that that thing is um and and you know probably has something to do with this idea of misogynism or uh this idea that of um equal rights uh that women need to be able hey man I’m we have equal rights sure get the same vote I get Y and 100% of the income since um our first child was born in n and she’s 39 uh has come into the house because of me Sharon doesn’t earn an income hasn’t not because we’re jerks it’s just what we choose to do in our life but but I don’t have an income we have an income here are the pronouns and so Sharon has as much right as much vote as much say and um as um so there’s no misogyny here it’s quite the opposite um it’s an equal vote and you know if we can’t come to an agreement we don’t do it which sometimes pisses one of us off but we need to be in agreement we need to be in unity uh because there is safety in that Unity there’s wisdom in that and and you know if you want to be independent and not have anyone ever tell you anything that you should do wrong then please don’t get married it doesn’t go well because I mean it’s immediately there’s going to be friction the first day on that basis or you complete me or some kind of bull crap like that it’s not you better get in that marriage to serve the other person and that together we’re going to serve the Next Generation and beyond that the Next Generation and we are going to serve the community and let’s get in this idea where there’s some meaning to life rather than this what can I get out of it you better get in that marriage to serve the other person I love that it works um are married people more likely to be in better Financial shape yes yes there’s all kinds of research and data um called the marriage advantage and it started with that the husbands uh in the 60s or 70s the first time we started seeing this this type of research pop up it’s not true today because it’s not exactly how the uh socioeconomic fabric is today but if you take 1965 or 1970 husband goes off to work with a little briefcase wife stays at home with two kids Bardon June Cleaver right whatever um then that guy had an advantage in the marketplace and ended up with a better career path higher income and higher likelihood of Building Wealth than his single person Pier did um and it really was because of support from home is what it amounted to in those days it was he didn’t have to worry about cooking he didn’t have to worry about kids I mean he didn’t have to and she the fact that he felt the responsibility back to them drove him to further things rather than you know what’s my responsibility I need more beer on Friday night I don’t have anything to come back home to to uh to to that I need to be better for uh and so being better for the family drove the in those days today we’re still seeing the marriage Advantage but of course we don’t live in a society that has that very often uh the vast majority of couples uh today uh both work or have worked at some time the vast majority of couples today are on a more equal playing field in the uh in terms of in the career space we see a lot of times nowadays where the ladies outperforming the man income wise in the marketplace Not Unusual at all um and perfectly cool with that but still we end up with that couple having a marriage advantage and I think it’s got to do my friend Simon synic wrote a book called The Infinite game and the thesis of the book is that when you play a game with a set of rules and there’s an end to the game you you move the pieces around you make the decisions in the game to get to that end when you are playing a game that there’s not an end to that is going to go beyond your life then you’re playing long ball you’re making decisions that are long-term based rather than short-term example of that in the marketplace would be uh the publicly traded company who lays off a bunch of people just to make quarterly stock numbers that’s shortterm thinking you can artificially run the profitability of a company up by laying off half your payroll you know having a big layoff and you didn’t need to lay them off but you needed the you needed to make your numbers for the stock market right and so but a company not doing something like that long ball is they’ll take a deep breath and and kind of go through a hard period of time and keep their High T quality talent because you’re going to need your high talent in the long ball game you know you’re going to need them five years from now 10 years from now but if you’re only thinking about one quarter at a time you make different decisions than if you’re thinking about 10 years 20 years 30 years out privately held companies make different decisions for that reason uh in the handling in the strategy of their businesses same thing’s true in our personal lives so what ends up happening is is the guy the couples that are married have a are playing long ball they’re playing infinite game they’re saying I want to change my family tree they’re looking at a baby being born by the way that’s an impotence probably number one thing that is that we’ve run into that causes people to stop the stupidity get off this crazy cycle and say we’re going to get out of debt we’re going to get on a budget we’re not going in a restaurant we’re going to do whatever it takes to get free we’re going to change everything we’re suddenly going to grow up and quit spending money we don’t have is when they have their first child oh absolutely that first child comes in the world it’s like dead gum this is an adult thing now I’m not a baby anymore and I quit I got to quit acting like one and your emotional calling to nobility goes way up what are the main thing you’ve you made a couple references to restaurant spending is that one of the big it is and I’m not against restaurants I love good food to my one of my favorite sports is fine dining you know so but but but uh but you know 80% of what you spend in a restaurant is entertainment you can make the same meal at home for 20 cents on the dollar yeah and um so it’s not it’s is not necessary for nutrition it is entertainment and you don’t go buy uh Broadway play tickets for 400 bucks a piece when you’re broke you know you stay home and play cards so you don’t do entertainment when you’re broke that’s expensive and entertain and that’s what eating out is and American have move again partly because both of them in the workplace they both get home they’re tired they don’t feel like cooking you know they don’t feel like getting out the dad gun frying pan and doing something but you can start eating from home by the way it’s healthier in general to eat from home and um and when you start looking at it it will open your eyes what you’re spending on out to eat what you’re spending on your car payment out to eat and uh and on vacations when you’re broke is those three things are what we find in a budget that we can change immediately and they can it helps them helps the math to make that turn real fast car payments eating out and vacations and Vacations so you addressed eating out let’s get to vacations how much people spend on [Music] vacations um I don’t I don’t have numbers memorized but I mean is your impression that that’s a big SP we know it is I mean it’s it’s the it’s again the $80,000 family uh what a trip to Disney cost for 4 days is you know what a trip to the beach for 5 days cost uh and rent an Airbnb and um you know I you grew up different than I did but I I was never on an airplane until I was 15 years old air travel was not normal in my generation no for middle class and lower middle class people um air travel for almost every American is normal now it’s very normal for people to jump onto an airplane and it costs a lot of money to buy an airline ticket to we’re going to fly to New York we’re going to fly to Disney we’re going to fly to the beach we’re going to fly to Cancun or KMEL or Cabo and which is great I don’t I’m not against doing those nice things I do them um but you live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else and so you look up you go we’re dropping we make 80 grand we’re dropping seven eight nine 10 grand a year on a vacation and then stuck with credit card debt and then we can’t figure out well oh Christmas it surprised us it’s in December this year caught me off guard and so Dad come what we going to do now well we got to put that on a credit card because we just used up what little money we had in savings to go on this Beach vacation during fall break and and it just and there’s this sense of um waking up then in January after the holidays with a financial hangover and the average American is paying on Christmas until May and so because they’re not they didn’t have any there’s no Christmas Club savings account at any local bank anymore hardly I mean bet 1% of Americans don’t have a Christmas Club account some people do save for Christmas thank God but what’s a Christmas Club account it it was a it was a thing again 50s and 60s it was a big deal and it’s just kind of deteriorated with some of the good banking practices but the idea was in January you would open an account a savings account that had Christmas written on the outside of it it’s called The Christmas club and you put enough in there 112th so when December got here you had the money to pay cash for your Christmas and you take your little money down there put your cash in at each payday and like lay away remember lay away yeah yeah it’s the same kind of Concepts except old old ideas that have now died in a new digital world and it’s not it’s okay that they’ve died but the the idea behind them I’m going to save up and pay for it well that’s gen genius car payments mhm that’s a huge expense for people largest item we buy that goes down in value and they go down in value Like a Rock that’s where Chevy gets that they um they uh lose 70% of their value in the first four years so you’re going to lose $221,000 in four years on a $30,000 car purchase you need to be making some money to lose $21,000 oh wait a minute we’re going to pay payments for the opportunity to lose $21,000 in value and pay extra interest and payments on that too oh and there’s insurance on that too so um what we have figured out is that um I and I it’s horrible for me because I’m a I’m a car guy I love cars and uh man driving junk cars for me when we were broke was the hardest we already established that the Jaguar when I was thought I was rich and I what happened to the Jaguar by the way uh it got sold uh two days before they repoed it I got it sold so it didn’t get repoed just barely but you know um and I obviously we had to write a check to get rid of it because we were upside down in it but um the uh uh so if you’ll drive like no one else later you can drive like no one else if you build some wealth then you can afford to lose money on cars but 100% of us that have anything with a motor in it or Wheels it goes down in value like I said I I said earlier I’ve got boats they go down in value I’ve got cars they go down in value and that’s in and of itself not evil but when it is a large percentage of your income or your net worth that’s going down in value then of course you’re going to be broke your whole life so if your if your entire investment strategy is $30,000 cars instead of putting $30,000 in a 401k you’re going the wrong way or instead of saving up the money and getting the house you’re going the wrong way house is going up in value 401K is going up in value makes you a millionaire like we said earlier uh but no one buys cars to become a millionaire quite the opposite so um our rule of thumb is don’t buy vehicles everything you own that has Motors put it together in it should be less than half your annual income and if it is then you’ve got plenty of room it’s not going to destroy your net worth but I talk to people making $880,000 they’re driving $70,000 worth of cars oh yeah and and then they go one more day we’re so stressed out and I’m like man you know my you’re not going to do what I say probably but if you do what I say I’m going to set you free let me help you with this here’s your really good idea sell two cars the silence on the other end of the phone is deafening well if you sell your cars how do you drive well you get two $2,000 cars with the payments from one month of not having $80,000 cars right you got make 80 grand you got $70,000 wor of cars oh my God there’s no chance just drive beaters for a short period of time yeah drive like no one else so later you can drive like no one else so after the Jaguar we um we had no car and uh a friend of mine uh helped me I think he helped me a lot of ways probably he loaned me his 1978 Cadillac that had 478,000 Mi on it and it had uh the predominant color was Bondo oh yeah and the vinyl roof across the top was broken so when you drove it filled up with air so it looked like a parachute a Bondo buggy with a parachute on top so I went from Jaguar to Bondo buggy I went from arrogant to humiliated not just humble but humiliated I mean cops would follow me in that car right you know what are you doing in this in a town and uh so you stop at the stoplight and the top would settle you know it’s like going down the uh and but you know what I drove that car what felt like 10 years one 3-month period And I saved up enough to buy a $2,000 car in three months cuz I wanted out of that thing I gave it gave that blessing back to my friend right I said Thank you thank you very much and um got a $2,000 car and then I saved up and got a $5,000 car what kind of car was it the 2,000 do you remember uh it was some kind of like Chevy Impala yeah it was ugly but it was reliable and a lot nicer than the Bondo buggy it was I mean the difference in a $2,000 car and a $400 car is dramatic yes it is and the difference in a $2,000 and a $6,000 car is dramatic the difference in a$ 6,000 and a $6,000 car is hardly discernible that’s a good point and a $220,000 car and a $440,000 car 90% of the people can’t pick it without looking it up on the internet how rich do you have to be to buy new cars uh we tell folks have a million dollar net worth if you’re going to buy brand new because you take such a hit in the first 12 months I I don’t I don’t buy new cars I do but I’ve got the money so um I’m not ashamed of that but I don’t I wouldn’t tell people uh to do that again until you’ve got at least a $1 million net worth don’t buy a new car unless you have a million dollar net worth buy a one-year-old let somebody else take the butt whipping on the depreciation and again the millionaires were talking to they’re driving three-year-old four-year-old Toyotas still I kind of tell them hey you need to UPG great cuz I often times find one driving a 93 Camry and D you know still and or million six and I’m like dude buy your wife a car come on that’s that’s awful you’re not proving anything at that point what about leasing cars leasing is a method of financing on a car um and so a lease payment is basically a car payment and um which is wiser it’s so confusing the leasing lease is the most expensive way to operate okay borrowing money at the bank is the is is better actually paying cash obviously is the only thing you should do ever you should I’ll ride a bicycle before I a car payment again knowing what I know now with the data that I’ve got and the life I’ve lived there’s no way and and I’m a car guy man I like a muffler I’m a redneck I like a muffler running you know I can hear it I love something fast but I’m still I’ll ride a bicycle for I a car payment so a car fleece we call them is basically the the math on it is you’ve got the MSRP the manufacturer sticker price right and that’s what the lease is based on and you’ve got a monthly payment that where you’re renting the car you’re leasing the car at the end of a closed in lease which 98% of the leases in America are closed in leases there’s a buyout number you can buy the car if you don’t turn it in for that number so you pay payments and the buyout number and the buyout number might be $9,000 and you paid $30,000 for the car whatever something like that and you you know you got a 5year lease so you’re paying payments for 5 years and then you got a buyout number so it’s much like the payoff on a car um if you paid it off early and so you can buy that car for 9,800 bucks in our example here and if you run in a financial calculator you put it in you back in and you say okay my current value is the of the car is the one number the series of payments is the other number and the N number is $9,800 we can ascertain that um the average car lease in America is 14.2% interest rate it’s not technically an interest rate and it’s not disclosed by truth and lending laws because it’s not borrowing money so you don’t get the little sheet when you that says your APR is that’s mandatory by the federal government if you buy something has an interest rate on it they have to give you that sheet truth and lending but you’re not borrowing money so you never know the cost of capital is what it’s called in lease but it’s a math formula that works exactly like interest so you’re borrowing money at 14% interest when you lease a car on average as compared to eight oh wow in today’s world it’s almost double yeah yeah it’s a high it’s a subprime rate but it’s a lower payment less down and the car companies make more money on it so they push it like crazy the number one uh car the number one most profitable square footage on the car dealers lot is the finance office they make a lot more money on the sale of that contract at leasing contract back to Ford motor they give him a right they write him a check back to Toyota credit back to Chrysler credit whatever they give him a check back to that dealer and they make more money on the spread on that contract than they do on the actual spread of the on the inventory item of the car so cars are an excuse to self financing this is so sick um wow you can see why a normal person maybe with less knowledge than you could see this all is like a vast conspiracy to enslave us all with debt no it is I mean it’s everybody just doing the best they can at their business and they figured out but I mean Victoria Secret figured out that they weren’t in the underwear business in order to keep your job at the underwear store you have to have you have to issue so many Victoria Secret credit cards a month if you’re the little girl selling underwear at the underwear store seriously yeah they fire them because they’re not they’re not in the underwear business they’re in the credit card business Sears but when it was open made more money credit cards that you better or your little wait your little waitress your little attendant there is not going to get to keep her job the uh Sears in the old days made more money on credit than they did on anything else of course they’re broke they had Discover Card later and they sold it off for a profit and they still went broke but should have stayed in the credit card business yeah they should have um okay can can we zoom out a little bit from from the personal to to the to the National to the macro yeah to the macro so our national debth M um is it as big a problem as the personal debt that we carry it’s a different problem yeah it’s um harder to uh for me anyway it’s harder to grasp exactly what to do with it um it’s harder to figure out where where there’s an endgame I have pledged for some reason in my space Tucker there’s always a guy um it’s typically a guy not a lady because ladies don’t for some reason don’t make this mistake but in the financial world people that in the financial World when they get old and they write books they almost always take a negative that the end of the world is coming so I’ve read 10 or 15 books that the end of the world is coming due to the national debt uh Peter Grace the grace commission studying the national debt under uh Ronald Reagan wrote a book called bankruptcy 1984 that in 1984 the government was going to go so far in debt that the government that they were going to bankrupt themselves it was going to hockey stick and he makes a legitimate case with math that the world is going to come to an end as we know it economically in 1984 and he’s smart smart happen yeah and there’s a whole bunch of others uh that are noted smart people but it’s just something about the genre that I’m in that people go negative when they get old and they always write the end of the world book and I promised I’m not going to I promised I’m not going to do it so no matter how old I get I’m not going to fall for that instead I’m going to write the optimism book but the um so the answer to your question is I do not understand why it is not having more of a negative impact than it is in my mind because you know I hate that obviously I’ve made a whole we’ve had a whole discussion around that subject today but the uh I don’t understand how we’ve gotten so far we’re such a large percentage of our budget now is just to maintain the interest um the trillions upon trillions and there seems to be no end to the appetite for both parties to just choke us to death on overspending uh the deficit is I mean people don’t even understand what deficit means in the real world out here it means that’s how much you’ve overspent that year only it’s not how much in debt you are it’s how much more debt you took on that year because you’re still as stupid as you were the year before you know it’s like God it’s out of control so the the ability for somebody to be a Statesman on one side of the aisle or the other to actually look at the American people and say no we’re not going to do this we’re going to rein this spending in it’s beyond me uh so that I that’s that’s a political capital I don’t see anybody even talking about intelligently um it’s it’s a dirty little secret and and there but there are people smarter than me that think it’s okay my I’ve got a good friend in Nashville that’s a worldclass economist named art laugher and uh he helped uh president Trump with his uh tax code that he wrote which was a great tax code um and uh he was famous under Reagan for the laugher curve for the laugher curve that as you decrease tax rates revenues rise revenues rise because you stimulate the economy and it’s a it’s no longer a theory it’s a proven fact um super lefties don’t like it because they It’s associated with Reagan but if you just look at the actual data it actually happens under the same Theory Clinton almost balanced the budget he lowered tax rates and was the closest we’ve come to not having a deficit in in modern times was Bill Clinton um because revenues went way up under Clinton the economy was booming and um and people paying taxes like crazy as a result with a lower tax rate so art says he I argued about this at dinner not long ago cuz I’m like art I don’t understand you’re going to have to help me cuz I’m a hillbilly and you’re like a Cambridge PhD okay so you’re going to have to teach me why is this not a problem he goes it’s not a problem it’s not a problem I know but that’s not the answer it’s like I’m saying why and you say cuz I said so it’s not toy so yeah you’re going to have to really talk down to me a little bit and teach me and and he tried to explain it and I’m still bless his heart he’s he’s so smart I can’t I couldn’t get there I do not understand why it’s not a problem but he really believes it’s not and I got I really like him and he’s really smarter than I am and so I’m maybe it’s not I don’t know and I’m not going to write the end of the world book anyway so I I do know that it represents uh from a person like me a person of Faith’s perspective this lack of uh personal discipline this inability to deny self in order to have a greater gain to say no to something today so I can say yes to my grandchildren’s generation that lack of nobility this this just avarice and greed this just every dollar just and everybody just milking the American public with these with this spending that to me that’s just um it’s just sick repulsive it’s repulsive it is and so um to me it’s a spiritual disease it’s uh it’s it’s a it’s an indicator of where we the people are cuz we could stop it we the people could stop it we just vote some different people in if somebody stood up and said no but no one wants your Congressman or your Senator to say no to something you care about I mean I mean my grand you’re going to cut my grandmother you’re going to kill my grandmother you know no we’re not but the word no in an entitled culture is word why are other people responsible for your grandmother yeah she’s your grandmother yeah but she’s on the program and you cut the program she’s going to die which is not she’s not it’s all hyperbole but um you know if um but I mean what VC’s saying you know you know turn the bowl over and dump out the alphabet soup up there start closing a bunch of these 464 agencies that we have you know what payroll is number one thing on any business p&l any government pnl number one item largest item when you go down the list of expenses is always payroll and you got alet soup up there so that means we’ve been open 200 and something years and we’ve averaged two agencies a year and in the first 100 years we had no agencies so that means we’ve averaged four agencies a year being formed and they’ve never closed one yet so alphabet this alphabet that up there and those people can spend some stinking money man they make the rest of us look like Geniuses I know and yet they blame us for everything oh yeah um so what okay so we are a couple weeks out from the presidential election mhm how do you expect and please go in order uh Comm Harris first Donald Trump second how do you expect the economy to change if one is elected or the other is elected Comm is elected what changes well um as a friend of mine says it’s hard to say without knowing but the that’s never stopped me Dave Ramsey uh the uh um again uh this is worth what you folks out there listening are paying for which is nothing so um uh and I’m an expert on my opinion but the uh economics I am sure and I’m a student of Economics I’ve got a degree in finance and so I’ve spent my time on that I spent my whole life on the subject micro primarily but Micro is implied um but economics for sure we see it in the stock market uh we see it in the stuff after the pandemic with supply chain uh we see it uh with oil Mo energy movement that kind of thing uh is is as much psychology as it is mathematics because it’s about expectations and self-fulfilling prophecies so in other words if I believe as a small business guy in 54% of the gross domestic product is small business produced okay so people have 500 or fewer employees are making this decisions on over half of the economy and so this heating and air guy um or a guy that’s got a financial planning Services business or a a lady that owns a chiropractor office okay are they going to invest some of their profits in growing their business open a rent a little larger space and hire another person to work on their team they have to believe in order to do that so it is self-fulfilling prophecy if they think things are bad then they take actions that make them bad cuz they don’t invest they don’t hire the next person and instead they pile that cash in the bank account because they’re looking over their shoulder like like death is coming over the corner right around the corner and so when people don’t believe under any president that things are going to be good they take actions to make it worse when they do believe then they create actions that make the person look like they caused something in the White House and really the small business guy is the one that caused something to happen um when I was interviewing president Trump the other day I said you know when you politicians and so you’ve been a businessman president Trump and a politician and when you people say I created jobs as a politician it pisses those of us that actually create jobs off because you don’t create any jobs all you do is create an environment where we’ll go create jobs I’ll hire people at Ramsay if you give me more of my tax money back art laugher right and I’ll hire more people at Ramsay and and grow what we do if I think I’m safe if I’m in a predictable environment that’s right and that’s what scares me about um uh vice president Harris is I I don’t think there is a solid program even if I didn’t agree with the program I can’t tell what it is and so as a businessman clity her ambiguity is more scary than my disagreement with her policy smart no I think and do you think that’s true for most business oh I guarantee you it is it’s if if but if you’re a com if you’re a solid Democrat and you believe in the Democratic party okay and that’s your thing uh which you’re probably not listen to this podcast but if you if you are um you know at Le at least then you would believe that the um let me try to find one in the past uh that was uh proactive um uh Kennedy okay of course Kennedy’s economic policies are more Republican than than our Democrat today’s world but and find a Democrat that you dis agree that you agree with and even if their policies are something I wouldn’t go along with I wouldn’t do that if I was but at least I know what it is I know what the rules of the game are and I can tell then I’ll be more likely to invest but when you take away um my sure footing even if it even if it’s treacherous footing the ambiguity causes the economy to slow down and that’s what we’re sitting in right now the lack of leadership out of the White House today as sad as it is and and there many things you know we can joke about it we shouldn’t but it’s easy to do we can um we do but the just the the sheer silence and the Frozen like a deer in the headlights for the last what at minimum 14 months 15 months has frozen the freaking economy it’s just sitting and looking at us and uh so that’s what scares me more than anything else even if you disagree with Trump at least by God you know what he’s going to do for sure drill baby drill lower taxes blow up the thing he’s going to I’m not in agreement with President Trump on personally I didn’t discuss this with him but I think the tariffs thing he’s overdoing I think the tariffs are going to cause some inflation I agree with some of the economists that have come out against him conservative economists come out saying don’t do that but he’s going to teari up up because he’s all about the behavior thing I think it’s a bad idea but at least you know you know if I’m buying goods out of Vietnam right now and my business my cost of goods sold as a businessman if I’m buying Golds out of tha land right now I’m doing some production there I’m not but if you are you buying stuff out of India right now you better get ready if Donald Trump’s in office for your cost of good sold to go up and we know that but that’s a predictable environment even if it’s a even if it’s going to harm my personal little business over here at least I know it and still now I at least know what the rules of the game are and I can act and you can still stimulate the economy on ideas you don’t agree with because they’re predictable the lack of ambiguity ambiguity is what kills the economy I understand it’s called lack of leadership now that’s what the White House can actually do uh the White House cannot create the economy they can create an environment where the economy grows but they cannot create an economy they do not have that power so don’t vote for somebody because Donald Trump’s gonna make you rich he’s not Camala Harris is gonna make you rich they’re not the laughable thing when Obama was elected these people now where’s my free car you know cuz these people went completely nuts thinking Obama was going to actually hand out candy from the White House and that entitlement stuff is whacked but from a business perspective a business man’s business woman’s perspective uh you know the the advantage Trump has over vice president president Trump has over vice president Harris is that he has a a very clear exacting thing that you can choose to agree with or disagree with but it’s an it’s an environment you can function in because it’s predictable that’ll cause Prosperity here here’s my last question I was having dinner with someone the other night uh and your name came up actually I didn’t bring it up this person just brought you up and said the thing about Dave Ramsey is no one I have ever seen treats his employees better than he does and you have a lot of that’s nice I thought it was really nice it was a memorable compliment it wasn’t just Dave Ramsey’s a good guy was Dave Ramsey goes way out of his way to treat his employees well and this was unsolicited he just said that um I didn’t forget it so I think that’s true um I’ve asked other people and I think it I’ve verified that is true I’ve I’ve reported this out uh but it raised the question and bless you for doing that but what are an employer’s obligations to his employees do you think well I mean there’s legal obligations that are obvious um I meant moral obligations and um there’s ethical moral and then they’re spiritual and um so our HR manual comes from Jesus’s uh word that just says treat other people like you’d want to be treated and so I’ve got a if I’ve got a guy on my team right now that just had a horrible uh accident and he’s in the hospital and um at this moment of this taping and so okay if my little brother worked for Tucker and he had a horrible bike accident and couldn’t come to work probably for a month I mean he’s had surgeries and you know he’s all tore up um how would you treat how would I want my little brother to be treated if he worked for you I would want my daughter to be treated um and so that’s the way we look at it and so it’s real simple then um if we have the money uh and lately we have had in the early days we didn’t but if we have the money and we can take care of somebody that needs to be taken care of we simply do it because it’s what I’d want somebody to do for my kid or for me if I was in trouble um and it’s caused us to do some pretty wacky things at times uh like what um well I mean like we had one team member that had cancer and they didn’t work for two years and they got paid the entire two years and now they’re back on our team and this person recovered yeah she she made it and she’s wonderful she’s a fabulous person by the way and um everybody loves her and um there’s no way we weren’t going to take care of her um while she’s going through that and if she had passed away we would have helped with the final Arrangements um because she been with us 15 years and she’s like a sister so we have to take care of her it’s what we do um the um and the greatest now running a business for 30 years um the most fabulous uh experience I’ve had is to get to walk along shoulder toosh shoulder with these warrior poets and fight through the things we’ve had to fight through to win and to become successful and meanwhile got each other’s back doesn’t always work sometimes people lie and cheat and say things about you they shouldn’t say and uh they make up stories and put them in the press and that’s happened to me it breaks my heart but um makes me mad um but we’re always going to be caught I I I’m not going to be on my deathbed and look back and go I wish I had taken care of so and so when I had the means to do it my life doesn’t change too so I mean how selfish would it be not to do that and what the byproduct that ends up happening and it really wasn’t the motivation for it but the from a leadership perspective the byproduct that ends up happening is um this Fierce loyalty and um this Fierce um desire to come to work and actually work while you’re at work and um and they take care of each other so somebody’s in the hospital the number of people that you know on our team will cut their grass or make sure they got food the familes got food the team shows up when a new person comes on board they’ve never seen like it uh five or six people from that team will show up and help them move the stuff out of their U-Haul and who does that we do because that’s the way we treat each other and uh it’s other service and there’s just tremendous uh spiritual psychological and end up being Financial reward because we don’t have anywhere near the turnover who wants to leave Ramsay nobody we don’t I mean if somebody leaves because they have a family situation like they got one got married the other day Mo decideed they want to live with their husband in Oklahoma kind of a problem so you know it’s a problem we lost that one you know so we have some turnover like that but we don’t have normal turnover like anywhere near anybody else and uh and we’re in the types of world with broadcasting I mean it’s high turnover world oh yeah um it’s a um it’s a gypsy World almost and and I mean my producer Blake Thompson has been with me almost 30 years and um one of my best friends and so that’s I’m get choked up about it uh but uh he’d do anything for Dave Ramsey and Shan Ramsey I gotta tell you man if something happened to me uh I got I don’t have any worry about somebody taking care of one of my kids my wife um those people will be there you built an amazing world God’s good Dave Ramsey thank you thank you [Music] brother so it turns out that YouTube is suppressing our show I know shocking that in an election year with everything at stake Google would be putting its thumb on the scale and preventing you from hearing anything that the people in charge don’t want you to hear but it turns out it’s happening so what can you do about it well we could whine about it that’s a waste of time I’m not in charge of Google or we could find a way around it a way that you could actually get information that’s true it’s not intentionally deceptive and the way to do that on YouTube we think is to subscribe to our Channel subscribe and you’ll have a much higher chance of hearing what we say and we hope you will
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