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the evil emanates from the fact that we have Fiat money but all Empires will go away and they’ll dissipate they’ll fall apart one way or the other and I think we’re seeing the cracks on on that and if you’re worried about deficits you can’t deal with that unless you deal with the printing process is coming out of out of the Federal Reserve the whole system is illegal and unconstitutional here or technicality the law says I can stay here forever and I don’t have to listen to anybody else so I I I think it’s rather ironic but I’ve never seen a chairman uh you know answer questions like that they want to do things in secret once they have an audit they’re going to find out all the mischief and it will they’ll be amazed how what they’ve been getting away with people have to realize that the that the Federal Reserve is the biggest taxer in the country because they steal your wealth without even entering your house the ultimate goal just clean up our mess is to get rid of this wicked monetary system which is a tax system that is get rid of the fed the end stages go very rapidly you know when people rush out of the dollar system but I don’t think that’s going to happen next month or so because the other countries are we’ve made them dependent on us but there’s going to be some incident when the gold exploded in the in the 70s it went from 35 up to 800 now I I think you’re going to see it double triple and quadruple if we don’t do the right thing this Kito news interview is brought to you by goldback inflation resistant 24 karat gold currency hey everyone I’m Jeremy Sapp this is Kiko news Federal Reserve chairman Jerome Powell made headlines when he told a room full of journalists that apparently he can’t be fired even if president-elect Donald Trump asked him to step down and this despite the fact that Powell himself has never been elected to the position and that comment has sparked a wider debate over the federal reserve’s unchecked power and its far-reaching impact on the lives of millions of Americans joining me now to discuss this growing issue is Dr Ron Paul former US Congressman two-time presidential candidate and a leading voice calling for significant reforms to the Federal Reserve or even its elimination he’s also the host of The Liberty report Dr Paul it’s great to have you back on the show thank you good to be with you all right let’s get this interview started as I mentioned in the intro at the press conference last week fed chairman Jerome Powell was asked whether he would step down if president- elect Donald Trump asked him to resign Powell answered no adding that the law does not permit the president to fire the FED chairman let’s quickly listen to that clip um some of the President’s elect’s advisers have suggested that you should resign um if he asked you to leave would you go no uh can you follow up on is do you think that legally he you’re not not required to leave no do you believe the president has the power to fire or demote you and has the FED determined the legality of a president demoting at will any of the other Governors with leadership positions not permitted under the law not what not permitted under the law thank you not permitted under the law okay I want to start by getting your thoughts on this statement it’s got a lot of people talking I mean is Powell wrong here you know it’s ironic that he’s worrying about following the law the whole system is illegal and unconstitutional here technicality the law says I can stay here forever and I don’t have to listen to anybody else so I I I think it’s rather aroic but I’ve never seen a chairman uh you know answer questions like that that was that was sort of entertaining because he he was a bit upset and he’s short no no boy I’ll tell you so but but they need more of that that’s why I’ve been after uh you know the Congress and others to look into this whole system that is unconstitutional illegal and causes so much harm and finances the government and if you’re worried about deficits you can’t deal with that unless you deal with the printing presses coming out of out of the Federal Reserve so that’s that is that is ironic but I hope uh this will you know the change in the administration and all that there will be more people looking into this but there are so many people who benefit by the continuation of the Fiat system that it’s going to be very hard to reverse course unfortunately yeah you know you said in one of your Liberty report episodes that quote no power was ever granted to the federal government to create a monopoly bank that manipulates interest rates and counterfeits money so you know the big issue is not uh who has more authority over the other the president or the FED chairman the issue is that the Federal Reserve should not exist at all so can you give our background a little bit of background here Dr Paul to the viewers uh how was the FED created and and why shouldn’t the fed’s unchecked powers exists at all well you could go back to 1913 and uh that’s that’s when the Federal Reserve actor was passed and it was under the in the Wilson era and that moved us into the Progressive Era of constant Wars and Welfare ISM and runaway deficit but it really started before that it’s this battle over Central banking occurred with Jefferson and Hamilton and uh you know the First Bank was allowed to expire but they tried to get a second bank and fortunately Andrew Jackson was around and he vetoed that and uh and then it wasn’t follow off but they quickly Incorporated you know the whole idea of having a central bank uh into into the Federal Reserve Act which there were a few people you know talking about it and opposing it but I think it was pasted you know on midnight at Christmas time so it was all shenan because and it just you could date what there are two things that people could date major changes with f with uh uh monetary changes that would be the establishment of the Federal Reserve but also uh you know February 5th or August 15th 1971 with the bankruptcy and where we went off gold absolutely completely with everybody and uh that’s was when gold was supposedly $35 an ounce that’s when I had been interested in the issue but I said this is a big day but I only could find one other person in my hometown they even had the Vagas notion about what was going on but all my concerns have have come about and I think we’re still just barely into the complete uh dissolution of what’s going to happen uh with the uh with the change over from this funny money system to something more constitutional yeah yeah funny money I like that okay well I mean over the course of the 2024 presidential campaign Trump has mentioned the idea of of having a say in fed policy back in August he said quote the President should have at least a say in there he pointed out that the uh his case and and I quote I’ve made a lot of money I was very successful and I think that I have a better Instinct than in many cases people that would be on the Federal Reserve or even the chairman I guess my question is here what role should the president or anyone else in government play in determining where interest rate should be or what the inflation Target should be well I’d advise they read the Constitution and advise that they study Austrian economics and find out why monetary policy is so important and if you want to live in a free society and limited government and not Conant War you have to know about this so the evil em from the fact that we have Fiat money and uh unfortunately in some ways we have been blessed you know especially since World War II of having a s Society very very wealthy very very rich very very very uh you know strong with the reserve currency of the world and uh and very very aggressive in building an empire but all Empires will go away and they’ll dissipate they’ll fall apart one way or the other and I think we’re seeing the cracks on on that I think you know the Brick Nations are talking about it and so we’ve aggravated a lot of people over the last 20 30 years with our aggressive foreign policy and of course uh our our badgering people you you do what we tell you uh or we’ll punish you we’ll punish you financially or we will bomb you if you don’t listen and I think people are get tired part of it so I would say the new Administration has a real challenge when some of these things come to light yeah you know it’s it’s funny because if we ran a business there’s been a lot of notion and discussion about we should run the country as if we’re running a business if I was running a business I would have to be audited so why is the Fed not audited well uh it’s it’s because they want to do things in secret you know they want to be fine because and you know I’m against the fair I want to abolish it people say well you you talk more about auditing I said well that’s the step you have to do to get the the public in support of it and we do have a lot more support and conversation about the Federal Reserve uh from the time I went to Congress in the 60s and and people are interested but because what once they have an audit they’re GNA find out all the mischief and it will be they’ll be amazed how what they’ve been getting away with and I I think of what all the International Financial emergencies they have you can’t find out exactly who did what when uh but they they pull it out fairly often but one of these days they won’t be able to pull it out just by creating more credit and uh it’s making people satisfied but I I think one of the reasons that’s happened is we are very wealthy we don’t have a sound currency but the rest of the world hasn’t done very well at finding a replacement even though they’re starting to talk about it yeah to your point I mean you’ve been discussing this issue for a long time you’ve warned that debasing the dollar is like counterfeiting and you even wrote the book called titled uh and the FED back in 2010 I think it was published we cut a short clip for our viewers from 2009 let’s take a quick listen de basing a currency is counterfeiting it leads to political instability and violence wealth cannot be achieved by creating money by Fiat the whole process is unconstitutional that’s and the fed you know this was more than 15 years ago now and you looked great doctor but can you make a comparison of what’s going on now in terms of debt and the Dollar’s purchasing power well it’s a continuation of it and I think it uh surprises some people that it has lasted this long uh but I I think it’s because the opposition has been inundated by our power our wealth and our willingness to you know accept this role as the policeman of the world and uh if they had uh you you know if they had an ability and understanding on how to deal with it they would but uh I I don’t think that’s going to happen I think we’re going to go through the ringer uh some people said well you just need more people in Congress to pass out on at the fit that’s not gonna happen believe me you you know even if you did get 50% of it there’d be riots on the street you you mean the government can’t print my money how am I going to get paid because there’s no more taxes to have that people have to realize that the that the Federal Reserve is the biggest taxer in the country because they steal your wealth without even entering your house all they do is devalue the currency and they pay 10 cents on the dollar and it’s a slick taxing system but that’s why I’m annoyed because because of the educational system most people say well yeah this is trouble I agree with youan we have to do something about this inflation we want more money send us more money so we can pay pay our bills well well that that’s that’s why the solution on top of the mess that we have is not going to be accepted readily and that’s why I think it’s an educational ISS issue more than just getting more Congressman thinking along these lines yeah well said I mean Luke groman who’s the founder president of forest the trees for for example made a statement on X saying that quote the FED hiking or cutting rates is fiscal policy because the US debt to GDP ratio is at 125% and interest expense is the second biggest fiscal line item at nearly 30% of receipts so I mean what are your thoughts on this well it’s on autopilot you know nobody’s gonna cut anything and and that’s why I’m very pessimistic on how this is going to end uh uh but I’m also optimistic that the Rumblings going on in the libertarian circles and the uh Austrian School is uh you know that rumbling is louder than ever before and there’s a lot of people who don’t do know this matter of fact there were people back in in 1913 that uh knew knew about even at the time of the founders there were people that that knew the Continental dollar failed and that’s why they tried to write the Constitution a little bit better than what they had you know before we had the Constitution it said only gold and silver can be legal tender so the knowledge is there the Temptation is overwhelming and the people yield to it because it’s power and money and to have that you have to have control of the monetary system and right now we’ve gone now especially especially since 1971 for this to accumulate and uh the paper the paper amount is is great out there the real wealth is is not necessarily high but the other thing that is is really causing trouble is when you have this wealth so poorly distributed you end up with uh you you end up with class Warfare some people get richer than the other and that I think is the biggest political threat we have and that’s why people you know if there is a sincere effort to cut back uh then have to deal with that dis uh you know discrimination against one group against the other in in the correction on what’s happened for all these years yeah we keep hearing that divide between Wall Street and and Main Street to your point I mean the call to the end the call to End the Fed or at least to see major reforms in the FED has been really gaining traction Senator Mike Lee from Utah called the FED to be under the direction of the president posting on X that quote the executive branch should be under the direction of the president that’s how the Constitution was designed the Federal Reserve is one of the many examples of how we’ve deviated from the constitution in that regard yet another reason why we should quote End the Fed now Tesla and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk reposted this adding that 100 emoji that’s used to convey agreement now you’ve mentioned that ultimately the FED will face public backlash but what will it take for this to be become a more Central issue and to be you know more of a mainstream narrative well I I think we move constantly toward Venezuela and uh and Zimbabwe and eventually the end stages go very rapidly you know when people rush out of the dollar system but I don’t think that’s going to happen next month or so because the other countries are we’ve made them dependent on us but there’s going to be some incident and it may because we’re constantly aggravating people with our foreign policy whether it’s in Ukraine which we finally are getting a little bit tired of and look how long it took us to get tired of Afghanistan and look how long it took us to get out of Vietnam and and that lingers and that’s and that that has to stop because the people the people finally get sick and tired of it and I think they’re getting there but I think there’s a lack of understanding that’s why I really emphasize the fact that we need a new generation of people and why I was so pleased with our campaign our national campaign that a lot of young people understand inflation a lot better than the people I knew in Congress yeah absolutely and it seems like you can almost explain it a little better I mean the concept of the FED independence from the other perspective is supposed to give the Central Bank the ability to shape monetary policy decisions such as raising or low interest rates based solely on the future health of the US economy so I mean you know the maybe the intentions were there but why do you think that this approach has been failing well you know a lot of people who approach it say that we need smarter people people that have been in business and I know what to do and they they will know what the interest rate should be and that’s a complete fantasy you you know the market works when you have free market pricing but when you have rais in price controls I remember when they came on in the 70s and it was within a day or two there were shortages I mean it was so fast but it was overwhelming so you have to have pricing but you can’t have fair market pricing if you have a currency that you can’t Define you have to have a definition of the currency of of what it actually is and uh and and then you have to recognize there is no way you could get you could get the smartest and richest people in the world to say I know what the interest rate should be well in a way I know let the market decide yeah speaking of high-profile people president-elect Donald Trump has named two of them to lead an ambitious effort aimed at cutting federal spending eliminating regulations and restructuring government agencies Tesla CEO Elon Musk and vivik RAS swame a former Republican presidential candidate have been tapped to lead what Trump is calling the department of government efficiency or Doge and a statement released Tuesday night Trump explained that the Doge group will operate outside of the federal government working closely with the White House Office of Management and budget to implement its recommendations mosque who is the world’s wealthiest person and overseas six major companies will not become an official government employee which means he likely won’t be required to devest from his business Holdings and Trump has given musk and ramas swame a deadline of July 4th 2026 the nation’s 250th anniversary to complete their work Trump Des described the effort as the perfect quote gift to America on the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence now musk posted on X that the actions of the Department of government efficiency will be posted online for maximum transparency and he also previously stated that he hopes to cut federal spending by at least two trillion dollar interestingly enough the acronym doge is a nod to the cryptocurrency Dogecoin which musk has frequently promoted it’s worth noting following the announcement Dogecoin saw a jump of about 120% in value over the past week Dr Paul how urgent is it to do something about all of this well it’s very urgent and I would say about 20 years ago no it’s it’ll it’ll keep getting it’ll get keep keep getting worse and this establishment of the committee to get rid of waste fraud and the deficiency of the government I think it’s very good and they have two good people that know and understand it but the one thing that bothers me is we’ve had many votes in the Congress uh to uh you know to pass a bill that says we have to get rid of waste fraud and inefficiency well uh I voted for it because you should work for that but it doesn’t work I mean the whole thing is uh it’s not the lack of of somebody that knows what the interest rtion should be and how the money should be spent they they they they do not realize that they don’t know what to do and uh and governments by Nature are inefficient and that’s why you have to have a free market you can’t you can’t regulate and say well we need smarter people then you end up with everybody from the radical communist system to some people who say well no we just have to have you you know a lot smarter people deciding what the interest rates should be and they and they don’t know they could they could say they said it even when the when the FED does it everybody looks at it and one hour later the the markets move 10 billion dollars or trillions of dollars and then a couple hours later it’s reversed again so uh no I I I Look to I am very very biased toward looking for answers through the promotion of Liberty and volunteerism it’s imperfect but I’ll tell you what it’s a lot better than everything being determined by authoritarians yeah you know you talk about this department of you know this this Doge that we just spoke about with Elon Musk what would you like to see tackled first in this initiative well to uh the ultimate goal just clean up our mess is to get rid of this wicked monetary system which is a tax system that is get rid of the FED but as a preliminary Step at least come out in a couple years we ought to be able to handle you know leaders like this to say we need to know what’s going on and I would say just add another another item to that list of of H of auditing how about the Pentagon just think of the Pentagon and all the spending that goes on and uh it’s it’s not not much good coming this whole idea that you have to be patriotic and uh you know and support all these wars and you have to bow to the military because they’re Our Heroes well I tell you what they’re they’re it’s an illegal thing it’s not National Defense it is not there to define a National Defense it’s designed there to serve the interest of very powerful people and and many of them are in the military industrial complex and they have a lot of clout a lot of power okay well we recently heard from Elon that he wants you as part of the Department of government efficiency he posted on X saying we would it would be great to have Ron Paul as part of the team uh would you be interested Dr Paul is your phone rang today yeah I’m interested as long as they don’t make me sign up to be a a a a member of some committee and working in the government but I think the idea because I I work in ideas so uh yeah I I uh I’ve I’ve talked to a few people that are loosely associated with the group and uh I’ve expressed an interest yeah yeah I’m if he calls I’ll answer and say I’ll do the best I can but you might not like my idea of getting rid of the fan and you see along with the FED I’d want to get rid of the income tax totally and completely interesting but you can’t do that unless you cut the spending and I think musk understands that you have to cut the spending but that’s where the political uh uh you know problems occur because the people are always for cutting spending for somebody else so that’s what you’d kind of that’s what you’d Focus your attention on in that role hypothetically is you know getting rid of that income tax and obviously cutting some deficit right I think so I think uh I I think that’s very important because the debt deficits uh you know it’s an immediate tax because you know that the money will be taken from the people someway and it’s usually you know the the gross amount of it is always Fiat money yeah yeah okay well before I let you go I need to get your thoughts on gold quickly Dr Paul because gold hit multiple new record highs this year rising of $2,700 us an ounce on the spot side I think right now we’re seeing a pullback below $2,600 an ounce I mean the metal is still up more than 25% year to date you’re a big supporter of having exposure to Gold uh what’s your take on gold going into next year gold is golden and gold has a record that’s why when you come up with another new scheme uh that I don’t understand uh and it may appear that the people are you you know uh interested in it I say I look at history and not only did they have the co coin each you know more than 2,000 years ago 6,000 years ago they understand how important gold was and I would say that I like that history and how long it’s last it and I think that tells us so I uh I think that and what I watch most uh that I think has the most direct effect on you you know the on the marketplace is uh is is the price of gold you know and and that is reflects spending and that it reflects deficits and they hide deficits they do everything else and they cheat the Federal Reserve doesn’t tell you what they do when there’s a crisis but uh no it’s it’s it’s a system that that works and the deficit is a big deal and the government is not I you know I shouldn’t say it because a lot of people are hopeful and I’m hopeful too that the ad this Administration will do better but the politics of it they’re they they’re very sincere and they’re very capable uh but I think the go I think the Market’s going to take care of it there will be a liquidation of the debt and there will be a liquidation of the male investment but it will be done by runaway inflation and making the dollar worth less and less on a daily basis yeah I mean is but is that what we’re seeing in terms of the gold prices right now I mean we’re seeing these alltime highs what does that mean in regards to the market yeah uh well well the markets do what they have to do but I think I think the markets I think when I think back so much to August 15 of 71 because I would have a lot of conversation and started speaking out about it even I who was saying this is dang this is bad but you know in the last year uh the the explosion of interesting gold you know sort of I should I knew about it but when it happened it was still holy man it really did happen and uh and of course if I had to assume what’s going to happen yes I think it’s going to continue to to think that we’re past the day where you won’t see see when when the gold exploded in the in the 70s it went from 35 up to 8 100 you know overreacting and stuff like that and I think I think there’s h no no reason why people shouldn’t say well you know what it will be nothing like that maybe it’ll go up 10 20 30% or something no I I think you’re going to see a double triple and quadruple if we don’t do the right thing and that’s why I hope I hope those who want to cut the spending and tie it into monetary policy they’re very important they have a very important job and I wish them well yeah and you brought up the momentum of bricks there I mean do you see gold playing a greater role in monetary policy in the US and globally kind of going forward yeah yeah I think I think it’s good but I think that’s history I think it’s I I don’t think they could cancel that out uh I I think the uh the there’s so many other things that’s built on paper the malinvestment people don’t talk about the malinvestment all the things that they deal did uh did they build and invest and becomes pyramidal a paramal and it builds and builds and builds that when it starts collapsing down it’s much bigger than they realize and uh we witnessed that but it seems like so far they have prevented the total runaway uh the uh the big crash but uh I think if we continue to do what we’re doing now that’s why I hope that this new Administration will be very serious about cutting yeah I mean there’s a lot of talk about this gold back currency you ever think we’re going to go back there I think N I think it’ll naturally go back I think a few people will go back I think of myself in a in a in a little sort of a silly way I’m on the gold standard what I do is I try to if I have if I have properties that you know could be blown up by a storm or something I’d like to protect what I owne uh by something that they can’t devalue and I think see I thought in 1975 one of the best victories we had uh the 71 was horrible but in 75 uh we Rel legalized the private ownership of gold in this country can you see that 42 years it was that we weren’t even allowed to own us so back then I said more than half of my life we weren’t even allowed to own gold so in 75 it opened up the door so in many ways people have and I see that a lot of people are now trying to get people to realize the stock market’s High you know this is a chance gold is not booming at the moment maybe this is the time that you prepare for that because I believe there will be a day when you will see gold double and triple once again yeah we had Judy Shelton on I think you know her and she was talking about this idea of having us treasuries converted to Gold any thoughts on this yes and I Read All About It uh not every every State’s doing it but they certainly that’s better than uh saving Federal Reserve notes so so I think I think they should and they’re recognizing its value but I I want to just keep keep it legal and I know I I think uh competing currency should be legal and we’ve worked in the states to try to get the states not to have sales taxes or capital gain taxes on gold coins why why tax money so that I I just Legalize It and the people will take care of the rest yeah sound money having a good movement Dr Ron Paul I know you got a good here former US Congressman two-time presidential candidate and the host of The Liberty report which I’m sure our viewers would love to check out thanks for your time today we appreciate it as always thank you nice to be with you of course a big thank to our sponsor goldback if you’re hearing about goldbacks 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