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I think we’re watching the most evil thing I’ve ever seen in my lifetime which is the lame duck Administration leaving the next Administration with the world war with the nuclear Conflict by allowing Ukraine a proxy state of the United States to strike within Russia and I’ll just have one editorial comment and then I’m going let you go but I think that people in Washington misunderstand Vladimir Putin and they think he’s a monarch with absolute power which is not true and Russian politics is complex and it’s Lively and Putin is very concerned with his approval rating within Russia he cannot appear weak that’s a huge threat to him he feels that um I can confirm and if he can’t hide attacks on him by the United States through Ukraine either on Moscow or big civilian casualties I I think he will have no choice in his view but to launch like a a serious response against Ukraine or some or NATO countries or possibly the United States so this seems like seems like the most Reckless thing that’s ever happened in my life I I hardly have for words for it let me just am I over stating it do you think no no not not even [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] remotely so let me just say specifically what has been authorized this is something that that some NATO countries including the United Kingdom have been pressuring the Biden Administration to do for quite a long time for at least a year but going all the way back to the beginning of 2022 this was an option that they had which was we have these these guided missiles called attack thems which are very powerful for attacking inside Russia you can guide them specifically and very precisely to where you want them to go obviously you have to get intelligence about where you want to strike and the reason we never permitted the ukrainians to use them is because the ukrainians can’t use those missiles on their own in other words if they want to launch these missiles it’s not just the us giving them the missiles and then telling them no problem go and use them it requires the direct involvement of the United States and or a major NATO country like France or the UK or Germany because the ukrainians don’t have the guiding capability in order to know how to launch these missiles so this is not just us giving them missiles and saying go attack deep inside R imagine if some major country China Iran Russia whoever gave missiles to Canada if we were at war with them or Mexico or Cuba and said we’re giving you these specifically for you them to use them inside the United States we would consider that a grievous Act of War not just on the part of the country shooting them but on the part card of the country giving them what Biden did here is so much worse he didn’t just give ukrainians missiles and say feel free to use them inside Russia we are going to participate in the bombing of Russia NATO Andor the United States States because there’s no way the ukrainians can launch these missiles on their own which means we are now our military our intelligence Community our participating in missile attacks inside the country of Russia this is something that even the bid Administration for all their hawkishness on Russia and Ukraine feeding that war fueling it preventing diplomatic resolutions because they wanted this war even they were unwilling to do it because they understood the dangers of the escalatory risks for Joe Biden or whoever acting in his name to do this just two weeks after the country resoundingly rejected governance by the Democratic Party in the administration and on his way out as an 81y old man knowing that he has about six weeks left in office to just say ah I know that these are massive risk but I’m willing to take them I’m 81 I don’t really care and then to make it so much more difficult for the following Administration to do what they promised to do dur The Campaign which the American people voted for and wanted which is to resolve this war instead were risking escalation with the world’s largest superpower nuclear power over what over what well I mean if placed in context too this is without precedent and I think it’s blinking I want to ask about that in a second but so 1956 Soviets invade Hungary and murder a ton of people 61 they put nuclear weapons in Cuba 68 they invade Czechoslovakia murder a bunch of people once again these are all you know incredibly provocative acts far more provocative than invading eastern Ukraine and this was the middle of the Cold War and no American president was Democrats and Republicans in charge during those periods they didn’t respond by attacking Russia I mean there’s nothing like this has ever happened no one’s ever been this crazy well this is you know my big breach with the laugh my big permanent split with whatever they thought I was in terms of assman to they hate you oh yeah I know and that all happened in 2016 when out of nowhere Russia gate appeared and I remember like it was yesterday the very first ad from Hillary Clinton’s campaign with this like menacing baritone voice you know what does Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump have in common what do they what does Russia have on Donald Trump and journalistically I just couldn’t believe it because it was so rolent of McCarthyism which is a civil libertarianism I found I was taught was like one of the civil lities of the 20th century by way I agree yeah I mean you go around just accusing people of being Russian agents with no evidence destroying their reputation their lives kind of like what they’re trying to do to Tulsi gabber now what they tried to do for Donald Trump for the last eight years so just on that ground I I was kind of offended by it journalistically I was so skeptical of it because when you have intelligence agencies leaking anonymously unverified claims to The Washington Post in the New York Times and they put it on the front page and gather piters for them that us usually a sign that a huge disinformation campaign of Deceit is underway that was the exact method used for example to sell the War uh on Iraq to the American people was that kind of process that’s why these intelligence agencies need to be roted out but what alarmed me most was that the climate was deliberately created in Washington especially once Hillary lost and they blamed Russia for it that any Communications with Russia anyone who visits Russia anyone who talks to a Russian official is automatically deemed Sinister or treasonous and as you said during the Cold War which dominated our American life for 50 years Ronald Reagan called the Soviet Union the evil empire they were infinitely more powerful more threatening more everything than they than Russia is now we always communicated with Soviet leaders there were phones all over Washington that rang to the counterparts they comment they they communicated constantly after Russia gate there’s basically no communication any longer between the Russian leaders and the American leaders on either side and I should just say I mean not because Russia wanted that that was something that in Washington got created because they blamed Russia and claimed that Russia Russia was our existential enemy because of the claim that they interfered in the 2016 election before that there was all kind the Obama Administration and and the Putin government cooperated in all sorts of ways around the world of course and but it’s it’s it’s the leadership of the Republican party too I had a conversation with the speaker of the house Mike Johnson and he was about to appropriate tens of billions more for Ukraine and I said well why don’t you check with Putin on you’re the speaker of the house you’re number three in line from the presidency well what I can’t I said well I’ll see if I can facilitate that I’ll call the Press office kind of set you up why don’t you talk to Putin no absolutely not will not why imagine if he had though and that leaked but but I’m not excusing him why wouldn’t he just say I mean I’m not attacking Mike Johnson I guess I am attacking Mike John I don’t know what I’m saying I’m just reporting what actually happened I said you know like what I don’t you have a moral duty to get as much information about this war before you fund its continuation and the killing of all these people like shouldn’t you know more no I I think it is important to say that this war has been 100% bipartisan although the bid Administration as the leader of the executive branch is primarily responsible the primary there there’s been about I would say five or six dozen anti-interventionist Republicans typically more Trump supporters both in the house and Sen who have spoken out from the beginning against funding this war but the vast majority of Republicans to the extent they have a criticism or had a criticism with the Biden administration at all with respect to Ukraine it was that they didn’t do enough they didn’t spend enough money on Ukraine they didn’t give Ukraine enough weapons they didn’t get more involved more heavily more and earlier than they should but you know the the thing that you said about encouraging Mike Johnson to speak to Putin which of course as the third in line to the presidency as you said when they’re proposing it to escalate a major war of of course you should want to understand the Russian perspective this is what Tuli gabber did in 2017 when she was a member of Congress and the Obama administration had Unleashed this billion doll year CIA dirty war to change the government of Syria to dislodge Bashar al- Assad from the government and we fought along Isis and Al-Qaeda who also wanted Assad gone we were told those were our existential enemies for 15 years we fought alongside them to do it and so many the weapons we sent ended up in the hands of al-Qaeda and Isis and other Islamic radical groups in Syria and Tulsi Gabbert is a member of the military but also as a member of Congress with constitutional responsibility to authorize or dis authorize a war wanted to go to Syria and see what was happening for herself and then she spoke with Syrian officials and got an opportunity to speak with the Syrian president and based solely on that she’s now accused of being a Russian agent being a some sort of you know treasonous uh sympathizer of bash Assad this is the jingoistic climate that has been created way worse than what prevailed in the Cold War when all we we Nixon went to China Reagan negotiated all kinds of arms deal with the Soviets this is now totally prohibited it’s like we live in a Marvel cartoon for children where there’s good guys and bad guys were the good guys and you don’t speak to the bad guys the good guys alaa and Isis they’re the good guys yeah we can fight with them because they so her point I don’t want to speak for telsey gabard our new Director of National Intelligence nominee but um um my view was I don’t have any feelings about Assad or Syria but it’s a fact that that government protected religious minorities including an ancient Christian Community there in the aloes of which he’s one in that country for a long time he and his dad so why are they my enemy exactly I don’t like what does why should I be opposed to Assad in Syria why should I be opposed to Vladimir Putin we were I was not supposed to be opposed to the Soviets who are anti-christian but now you have a pro-christian president I’m supposed to be against him tell me what wasn’t something explain to me why as a 55-year-old American taxpayer I should be against even so first of all I think the principle is that and this is what Donald Trump R explicitly in 2016 was that we shouldn’t be involved in Wars designed to change the governments of other countries build rebuild their governments transform their Societies in part because it’s not our place to do it and in part because we’re terrible at doing it because they have very complex rich long histories that American intelligence official and political leaders have no understanding of whatever freaking language I mean they don’t know anything they know nothing and we’ve proven that over and over in all these failed attempts but also when it comes to I mean the Tuli gabri’s entire worldview and I have spoken to her about this I’ve interviewed her about this so I feel comfortable saying this is that she’s not in any way anti-war pacifist she believes that we should be very militarily aggressive against say terrorist groups that actually want to attack the United States or have done so or American assets or American interest around the world her argument is is that we should not be involved in regime change Wars of the kind we did in Iraq of the that she fought in of the kind we did in Syria of the kind we did in Libya of the kind that we did in Ukraine in 2014 when we actually engineered a coup on the most sensitive part of the we’re trying to pull off in Russia right now the point of this is to knock out Putin yeah to to weaken that regime and to the thing is though that what you said about Putin is so important which is Putin’s critics he doesn’t have very many liberal critics meaning to his left exactly his real critics are hardcore nationalists exactly and the criticism of see him as a liberal who see him as weak or insufficiently militaristic when it comes to confronting the west but particularly on on Ukraine they wanted they wanted destruction of Ukraine they’re they a lot of them are enraged and as you say the Russian government has taken the position warned the United States government privately and publicly that any use of these missiles involving as they do Ira us or NATO involvement in their launching against Russia will be seen as the entrance of the United States and NATO as belligerant in this war as a war against Russia as World War III and he will have to treat it as such even though he’s been very constrained even though he clearly doesn’t want a broader War there are a lot of people inside Moscow who do wield a lot of power who do and he who will demand that he treated as such Why would why wouldn’t they we are attacking Russia we’re shooting missiles inside Russia so I think um as you’ve said I don’t think we can say it enough so much of this has been conducted in bad faith but also so much of that bad faith has been informed by ignorance or uninformed by ignorance not informed at all and I think that people really think that Putin is an absolute dictator who can do whatever he wants and that is not the case it’s is not the case super complex place a lot of smart people in Russia complicated political situation so I agree completely we’re pushing him toward that the view I think I know uh from Putin is that blinkin is driving this and that blinkin has a lot of hostility is reckless but has a lot of hostility toward Russia that has nothing to do with the United States at all um do you think that’s true you think blinkin is driving this yeah I mean I think I think blinkin Jake Sullivan that’s kind of the Brain Trust as it is obviously Joe Biden has no involvement in this whatsoever which I think you know has been a an issue which we’ve shockingly ignored everyone saw what Joe Biden was long before that debate yes everyone knew it the only people who didn’t say so were the media and Democratic allies after the debate it became untenable for them to deny it any longer that this is an old man who has lost his cognitive capabilities yet he’s still the sitting president of the United States and you had the vice president understandably doing nothing for the last four months other than working on her own empowerment through the campaign she obviously wasn’t involved ever in any decision- making let alone when she became the nominee so the question has been all these consequential decisions we made deploying massive military assets to the Middle East making declarations about when we would go to war in the Middle East and for whom escalating the war in Ukraine now authorizing the use of these long-range missiles he’s obviously aren coming from Joe Biden he barely understands where he is it’s it’s not a character flaw on his part part but it’s just a disability a clear disability he’s obviously not making any of these decisions I do think that if you look at the National Security crowd that emerg from the Obama presidency especially the people who were associated with the state department run by Hillary Clinton then John krey even before Russia gate in 2016 they had an obsession with Russia in fact when Hillary Clinton left the administration the SEC as Secretary of State and wrote her book hard choices the only areas in which she were crit was critical of Obama was her view that he wasn’t willing to confront Russia sufficiently Obama had this view like sort of this realist view from B Brent skor Croft those are the kind of people he lik Jim Baker that why would we send lethal arms to Ukraine and provoke Russia Ukraine is not a vital interest to us but it is to them he wanted to work with Russia and did to facilitate the Iran deal to bomb terrorist Targets in in Syria and there was a faction in the Obama administration led by Hillary Clinton blinkin was there all these sort of National Security people woven into the that you know that Victoria Victoria Nan was hired by Hillary Clinton that’s how she made her way into the Obama Administration they viewed Russia as this grave Menace the reason Putin hated Hillary Clinton was because when Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State the United States openly spent millions of dollars funding opposition groups and organizing protests in Moscow I mean we talk about Putin interfering in our sacred uh politics and our Internal Affairs Hillary Clinton was openly funding protest and and and and anti-putin agitat agitators in inside Russia in the 2010 election in 2012 2011 rather and they were obsessed with Russia well before that and I do think that Russia is disliked by a lot of people in Washington because of the perception that they are detrimental to our interest in the Middle East and to especially to Israel’s interest in the Middle East including their support for Bashar al- Assad in Syria the fact that they have a good relationship with Iran it doesn’t always have a lot to do with the United States but with the interests of other countries as well so you think that’s the prime mover here because it is true that Assad is only there because of Russia I think I think that’s a fair statement yeah that’s their Ally in the Middle East and has been their Ally in the Middle East for for decades um and just like we support our allies around the world like Saudi Arabia and Egypt you know very Savage brutal dictatorships but at least who do our bidding the Russians have theirs as well they have a long-term relationship with Venezuela with Cuba going back to the Cold War and still do as well as with Syria and yeah the Russians operate in Syria they protect Assad in Syria and as a result they end up being antagonistic to Israel which ends up being defined as us interests as well like there’s no separation but strictly speaking this has kind of nothing to do with us whatsoever I mean I don’t I honestly for theast unless you see Israel as a part of the United States you know I’m not hostile toward Israel but I think it’s a separate country it seems to me be separate country as well it’s often not treated as that I’m just saying but don’t pay taxes there wasn’t born there so from my just from an American perspective without wishing ill in any other country at all um and I really don’t um I have been struggling for really since the 2016 election but particularly since the War Began in February of 2022 to identify what exactly would be the US interest in this and I and I just can’t and I’ve really I think tried hard but I just I just don’t see what’s in it for us all tuer there there’s nobody I’m certain of this in the United States just an average ordinary American voter who believes that their life is affected in any way by the question of who rules various provinces in the donbass in eastern Ukraine nobody thinks about Ukraine let alone the donbass let alone eastern Ukraine it’s an incredibly complex situation there in terms of the people’s allegiances which are far closer to Moscow than they are to Kiev the question of what that territory should be should it be semi-autonomous should it be used as a buffer against the West the the whole framework as you all know and as other people have pointed out when Russia agreed to the reunification of Germany which was obviously an extraordinary thing for the Russians to agree to given the Russian history in the 20th century with respect to Germany when they open the Berlin Wall F fell and they allowed the East and and and the western parts of Germany to reunite and to become part of the the west and become part of the EU the only concession they extracted in exchange for that was okay with reunification NATO is now moving Eastward closer to our border in a country that has devastated our country twice in two world wars invaded Russia twice killed tens of millions of Russian citizens the only thing we need as a security guarantee in exchange for allowing that is that NATO will never expand one inch Eastward beyond what was East Germany and the United States agreed to that and immediately in the ’90s under the Clinton Administration the Clint Administration started talking about an and implementing NATO expansion Eastward toward Russia exactly what was promised to gachev the United States would not do in exchange for them agreeing to reunification and why why why did we need to expand our influence Eastward toward Russia and now it’s not just Eastward in general it’s going directly up to the Russian border on the part of their border that has been invaded twice in Ukraine to destroy Russia in both of those those world wars we also participated in the change of government we removed the democratically elected leader of Ukraine before his constit term was expired in 2014 because we perceived him as being too friendly to Moscow which is who the ukrainians voted for and replaced him Victorian Newan constructed a government and they was replaced by a government that was more Pro us imagine if the Russians engineered aou and Mexico to take out the government because they were too friendly to the US and put in a Hardline pro- Russian anti-American anti-nato president imagine how threatening we would regard that as and that’s exactly what we did in Ukraine the question is though this has nothing to do with the National Security of the American people no American is threatened by who governs Ukraine what they’re threatened by is what the United States is doing in Ukraine including this most recent act well they keep telling you AI is going to make the world a better place that may be true but you have to ask better for whom better for your health insurance 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person who controlled the launch codes he knows what it means and anyone who spends 5 minutes looking into what a nuclear exchange would actually uh you know do is uh is terrified of it and but only Trump seems worried about it I don’t understand why yeah I’ve said this I’ve talked about this so many times and I think it goes back to when Trump was president in the early stages of presidency every time Trump talks about the prospect of nuclear war he knows that he’s Limited in what everything he can divulge but he’s so clearly trying to signal and he often says it these weapons are of a different Universe than even the ones we dropped in Japan correct and he’s obviously as you said understands and been briefed on but you see these morons at the Atlanta Council or AI or Hudson or these this cluster of the dumbest people in the world all implicated in the Iraq disaster say well you know maybe tactical nukes are fine that we that an that’s such Next Level crazy like that’s crazier than any schizophrenic sitting next to you on a public Subway well yeah I mean we we constantly call like RFK Jr they call him crazy they call you know T gabber to M Gates crazy whoever these people who have been in power who have been generating American Orthodoxy especially on foreign policy are the most insane people on the planet it’s because the United States has been the most powerful country in the world no one could constrain it no one could stand up to it and as is true with everything that level of unconstrained power corrupts people these people have been in control of this power for decades passed on one to the another through this Dogma that gets increasingly out of touch and detached from reality and the and and megalomaniacal abs exactly I mean at least during the Cold War I’m not saying it was a good thing but the Soviet Union United States were of equal power they were competing with one another they were both very constrained in what they were they both were petrified of a nuclear world we almost came to nuclear Apocalypse at least twice especially in the Cuban Missile Crisis through misperception and miscommunication when a Russian commander of a submarine thought incorrectly that they were using nuclear weapons against the submarine and against uh Cuba and almost launched the nuclear weapons at the sub came about five minutes away from doing so until someone intervened on that sub and said I don’t think that this is actually an attack it’s very possible we’ve come to the brink of it before it probably is the single greatest threat to the survival of the species not probably definitely is the use of nuclear weapons every time Trump talks about it you can see the fear that he has he’s trying to convey to others every time and I’m a I mean Tucker I’m amazed this is like impeachment level stuff for Joe Biden on his way out of the door to involve the us directly in a war for the first time we’ve been very involved in other ways they should impeach him why doesn’t the speak houseal limitation on the president’s ability to involve the US in a war without Congressional authorization which is exactly what has happened through the use of these missiles which as I said we need to help direct and the question is yeah why the answer though is that the vast majority of the Republican caucus in the house and in the Senate supports what Joe Biden is doing thinks he should have done this a year ago and there’s probably not a lot of anger in the House and Senate over this except the question that it’s called lame duck for a reason a lame duck is supposed to be a duck that really doesn’t do much can’t do much doesn’t move much it’s by Design pretty Limited it’s like this transition period yeah he’s floating in the water cuz he’s been shot he not exactly his legs are are broken and so he’s lame this is not a lame duck decision and it’s not like there was any emergency to it it wasn’t there was no emergency to it they just wanted to escalate it because they thought thought Trump wouldn’t and so they did it puts us in this remarkable moment where the only adult is Vladimir Putin this person we’ve been told is Hitler and deranged crazy dying of nine different kinds of cancer can’t be trusted like the only reason we’re not I mean we’re all relying on his restraint that’s just a fact right now how weird is that well I mean first of all this is this is what amazes me is that I sometimes propaganda I propaganda is you have to respect it it’s a very potent field of human knowledge that has been refined over many decades using every field of discipline so social sciences and psychology in Psychiatry I mean propaganda is not just some you know intuitive thing that people do it’s an ARG you make yeah and it’s very powerful and we love to talk about how propagandized the Russians are and the Chinese are and how there’s no desent allowed you know George Orwell in the preface to Animal Farm wrote or actually 1984 wrote a an essay where he was essentially saying that overt totalitarianism of the kind that was taking place in the Soviet Union is repressive but it’s not nearly as effective as subtle repression the kind where you give the illusion that people are free but in reality the flow of information is heavily controlled because at least when you know the guys dressed in black with weapons come and take you and put you in a glue Lo for criticizing the government everybody understands the level of Oppression it often generates a backlash but when you combine repression with the illusion of Freedom that’s what’s incredibly you de people with an abundant consumer economy like you know here are your Edibles here’s your Netflix come down yeah you can you can basically get them to do anything yeah and at the same time there has been a concerted effort to control what was supposed to be the one Innovation that was going to break the centralized control of information which is the internet that’s why there’s so much attention and energy it’s why it’s the number one priority of Western power centers to control the internet because it’s the one threat to their ability to maintain this propagandistic control you know I still can’t believe this that it’s not talked about as much but right after Russia invaded Ukraine and Western governments decided they wanted fullon support for Ukraine and this very simple-minded narrative that they fed their public after they started the war when the bid Administration started that’s my view of it they knew that Russia would invade if they publicly push zinsky to join NATO so they did that KLA Harris did it and Russia my view is they started this war Ian threat talking openly about expanding NATO to Ukraine you can find memos from the highest levels of US Government saying if you do that it’s not just Putin it’s every political faction in Russia that will see it as a war and will they’ll invade they’ll Annex Crimea and invade eastern Ukraine of course the American government knew that you can show documents where where it says that but the you the EU the minute that war started in Earnest with the Russian army invading one of the very first steps they took legislatively was to ban the platform in to criminalize the platforming of Russian media like uh Russia RT and Sputnik they made it a crime and YouTube immediately pulled it off because they didn’t want their citizens hearing any information from the Russian perspective I mean you can hate Russia you can think Russia is evil you can think whatever you want about Russia but why wouldn’t you want to hear from the other side you know the New York Times used to publish all the time like the speeches of brev of course and uh Yuri androp and and kushev and you could read what the Russians would say they would come to the United States they would speak openly now it’s it’s practically criminalized Putin’s speech in February 2022 to to his country nationally televised there um right before the invasion was absolutely just a remarkable speech which I by the way never got around to even looking at before I got to Moscow and I was like I interview put I think I should watch that speech i’ read about it never watched it and I think I mean you could agree or disagree you could hate Putin I mean it’s totally fine I don’t care how people feel about Putin but to most Americans had no idea his thinking in invading Ukraine like no idea what why wouldn’t people want to know what it was just the cartoon ver he’s an evil hitlerian figure who wants to Recon re re re re reconquest uh all of Europe the way Hitler did Putin has been in office for 25 years he has gone through six different American Presidents every single one of them until you were not allowed to say it anymore always said you meet with Putin he’s incredibly shrewd he’s incredibly smart you can trust Putin if you do a deal with Putin you can count on the fact that he will adhere to it other heads of state still feel that way and say that yeah well American president said it all the time starting with Bill Clinton that he’s rational that he acts in his self-interest that he’s calculating in terms of and careful and then suddenly this is what amazed me propagandistic is that overnight everybody was forced to say that Putin invaded Ukraine simply because suddenly he became the psychotic evil Hitler type figure who just wanted out of the blue they all believed it though a lot of them the people screamed at me at airports for being pro Putin which of course I’m not pro I’ve never been Pro Putin I don’t have strong feelings either way but they really had been convinced not just by MSNBC and CNN but by the entire oligarch controlled internet that like anyone who talked about Putin raised questions about the war was like for Putin it like that worked the propaganda worked talk propaganda especially nationalistic propaganda because human beings evolved over thousands of years to be tribal like we we want to feel part of our group we take pride in our our group like it’s why if you’re born in America you say I’m an American this is my country this is what I’m loyal to it comes from these tribalistic instincts right it makes sense because we evolved for thousands of years where you if you got expelled from your tribe you would you would die you needed a tribe in order to survive so we’re tribalistic animals so if you appeal to people’s tribalism and say we’re the good guys we’re the innocent victims our enemy are the bad guys they’re evil they’re you know that appeals to people’s MOS visceral instincts and the problem of course is the counterveiling punishment which is the minute you question it you know I had from the beginning I had on my show you know people like John mimer and and Steven Walt and Jeffrey Sachs and they were all saying from the beginning there’s no possibility that Ukraine can win this War as NATO has defined it which means the expulsion of every Russian troop from every inch of Ukrainian soil just simply on size grounds alone just saying just basic understanding of History every one of them I’m sure I think it happened to you too I know what happened to me were put on these official lists issued by the Ukrainian government of being pro-russian propagandist everywhere you went you get accused of being a Russian propagandist or some sort of agent of the kemin simply by questioning our own government’s propagandistic views or simply trying to understand things from the perspective like this is you know I after 911 the big question on the minds of all Americans after they were traumatized by this extraordinary assault on our soil designed obviously to impose as much suffering and and and uh killing as possible was obviously they asked like why why do they want to do that to us why would people hate us so much that they would devise a scheme as complex and deadly as hijacking planes passenger with box cutters and fing them into major American buildings filled with people why would they hate us that much and they had to the government had to give an answer to that question because people obviously wanted to know the answer and that was when David from and Cheney and all the people said they hate us for our freedoms they just can’t stand the fact that women are allowed to wear bikinis on the beach and that we have a congress it’s like no one ever thought well there’s like dozens of countries around the world where women get to win ver bikinis and have congresses like in Japan and Korea and all throughout Latin America and like Scandinavia why aren’t they attacking those places and then Bin Laden wrote a letter in 2002 to the American people saying here’s why there’s so much animosity toward the United States and there was of course some appeal to religion in it I made the mistake of Reading part of that letter on the air at CNN at the time not to make a kind of point but just because super interesting you know and 911 changed everyone’s life very much including mine lost a friend that day like just like every American who was an adult a 11 it was like you felt like it was an event that you participated in or it affected you so I felt like I had every right to read that letter like hey this is he he’s now saying why he did it I almost got pulled off the air for doing that oh I know well Tu I just want I just have to I I not only doesn’t that surprise me a lot of people have forget forgotten that this happens but it’s actually quite extraordinary after 911 obviously Osama Bin Laden was one of the most important people in the world he just per perpetrated the worst attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor and a lot of people wanted to interview him or play clips of interviews the United States government told called all the network news agencies uh into the White House and said to them you should not and cannot show interview osam Bin Laden or show any interviews with him and they invented this excuse as to why which is that he might put some sort of code in his interviews that signal to Sleeper Cell like he might like wiggle his ear like Carol Bernett did or like you know raise his eyebrows three times or blank in a more code in a certain way and and the networks all obeyed and the most amazing thing was this letter which you can go read where he says exactly why all the different ways the United States has brought violence to that region has interfere our foreign policy is the bottom line at yeah well we’ve been bombing that region and interfering in them imposing dictatorships on those people for decades specifically to suppress the things they believe in we don’t want popular I being prevailing in democratically in the Middle East because we don’t perceive it in our interest so we’ve been imposing dictators on them secular dictators we’ve been bombing them we’ve been sanctioning them we’ve been invading them of course we support Israel which in that region people view as this grave assault on the rights of of Palestinians but we put bases in Saudi Arabia which is the most sacred soil to that religion we imposed a blockade and sanction regime on on uh Iraq which mine Albright admitted killed 100,000 children but nonetheless said it was worth it so we’ve been so active in that region and that’s the reason they wanted to attack back that’s the reason alqaeda had so much support but they banned Osama Bin Laden from being heard just like the EU banned Russian State media from being heard because of course you don’t want Americans being exposed to this and then the amazing thing is that letter which really not didn’t get much attention at the time the only place that existed on the internet was on the Guardians website and somehow you know 22y olds on Tik Tok found that letter and they started talking about it and they were like oh my God I was never told this before he didn’t attack us because he hates us for our freedom he says specifically here why they’re attacking us and in other words they were reading a historical document and discussing it things that you would want a free citizenry to do but the fear that they were allowed to not only read but talk about that document with one another was so intense that in 48 hours they forced Tik Tok to ban every discussion of that letter to remove the hashtags to find it to take down any post or accounts that we’re talking about it and then the guardian a news Outlet removed that letter which had been there for 20 years which was of obvious historical and journalistic import they removed it from their website because they were too frightened that people were going to be able to read it why because it prevents The propagandist Narrative from being unchallenged and that’s the same with Russia and Ukraine that shows you how we think we’re so free we have we can we hear so much dissent because you have a Republican and Democrat biggering on a cable show about trivial things you’re like oh look we have free debates open debates they don’t they don’t get to have that in Russia and China but the minute there’s information that actually threatens the government that they fear people understanding they clamp down on it and suppress it and that’s what they did there you wonder why we put up with that you wonder why we put up with a government that continues to keep secret files about 911 it’s been 23 years what what could possibly be the justification for not telling me information that I own and have a right to see which is what the hell was that and they constantly lecturing people even the JFK files well especially the JFK file but but much more immediate it was 23 years ago but I mean we’re both adults we remember it very well it was like I I was traumatized by that it was a horrible event exact and then a lot happened our country changed radically because of it to this day the Patriot Act exists well it’s not never been the same country and in some ways you know it was much more successful in its aims than than I even want to admit to myself cuz it’s so sad to see what it did to this country but here’s the point they’re constantly they meaning the media and the Intel agencies which work together as you know um are constantly attacking other people for being conspiracy theorists and crazy and desecrating the memory of the 9/11 victims Etc by coming up with explanations that are not authorized okay then why don’t you just tell us what actually happened why not just declassify it what I don’t what’s the answer it’s going to jeopardize sources and methods that’s that’s not true and we all know that’s not and you know that this the important of protecting those Secrets keeping those documents that might show the truth not 11 but JFK that’s the most important thing it’s the it’s in fact the whole point of the second impeachment trial yep which never made any sense why would you bring an impeachment trial against the president on his way out the office was because they were petrified that Trump was going to do certain things in that transition like pardon Edward Snowden Julian Assange which he came very close to doing but especially fulfill his promise to declassify things like the JFK files and other National Security files that have been kept hidden with no justification from the American public even though it happened decades ago 911 JFK and they told him if you do that all the Senate Republicans are going to vote to impeach you you’re going to be convicted and ineligible to run ever again that was the sword of democles they held over his head precisely to prevent him from bringing transparency to the government and allowing the American people to see what they have a right to know but if your greatest fear is transparency then you’re a criminal I mean that’s basically roof I I can’t think of a better indicator of behavior than the crazy desire to keep that behavior secret right can I I want to just say something that which is if you think about what a democracy is supposed to be like what an ideal free Society is whatever you call that it’s supposed to be that everything that public officials do in the name of the Public Power is supposed to be known to the the the public with very few exceptions right like if there’s a war they’re planning troop movements they can keep that secret yeah Normandy a week before can keep it they don’t have to tell everyone that they’re going to do that but outside of those very rare exceptions we’re supposed to know everything about what they do of course because they’re doing it in our name they’re our employees yeah and they’re supposed to be accountable to us but they can’t be if we don’t know what they’re doing conversely they’re not supposed to know anything about what private citizens do they’re not supposed to track us or EES drop on us or keep dossas on us or know where we are where we’re going unless again very rare circumstances where Criminal there’s probable cause to to to to spy on us because we’ve conin they’ve convinced the court as the Constitution requires that there’s probable cause to believe but except in those rare circumstance that that’s why they’re called public officials and we’re called private citizens we’re supposed to have privacy they’re not they’re supposed to have transparency our society is completely reversed if you’re a private citizen the government knows everything about you they keep all kinds of that on you that was the Snowden reporting obviously that’s what Edward Snow revealed was the extent to which we were being surveilled by our own government conversely we know almost nothing about what the you know when I got the Edward Snowden archive which was hundreds of thousands if not more of top secret documents from the NSA obviously what was surprising is what was in them and what they revealed but what even more surprising to me was that the documents so many of these documents most of these documents that were marked top secret had no interesting information in them at all like they just reflexively put like how to get a parking credential how to ask your supervisor for a vacation these were top secret because everything the government does reflexively is kept secret from the public you have no right to that’s the default you have no right to right exactly so everything is inversed we the government knows everything about what we do and we know nothing about what they do I guess I should have known this that the big pornography sites are controlled by the Intel agencies they have access to the data on those sites and the reason that they do and I think the dating sites too and the reason that they do of course is blackmail and once you realize that once you realize that like the most embarrassing features of your personal life are known um by people who want to control you then you’re you’re controlled and you look at the behavior of some of these people who I know personally and particularly in the Congress you’re like why are you doing that you don’t agree with that and you’re out there doing it anyway we always imagine that it’s just donors they’re getting paid to do that I think it’s more than donors I’ve seen politicians turn down donors before I’ve see watched it you know I don’t believe I’m not doing that a lot of people have very safe seats not everybody is desperate for donors exactly okay just give you an example I’m not so it’s not just the carrot there’s a stick in there I’m I’m not saying this happened here I’m not saying that at all I have no basis for saying it but I had Mike Johnson on my show about two months before unexpectedly he became the speaker when he just became like the N Mike Johnson on your show yeah I interviewed Mike Johnson and the reason I interviewed Mike Johnson was because he would not go on your show now oh no this is this is why this is so interesting I didn’t know that this is why so yeah just by chance I interview Johnson the reason was was because Christopher Ray went before a committee on which he sat in the house and Mike Johnson grilled him about FBI spying about the involvement of the intelligence communities and our politics about the attempt to censor the internet coming from the Intel agencies and he did it with this great kind of intellect but also this very effective demeanor and I could just tell that he passionately felt passionate about these issues and then I started following more and more what he was doing and he was almost single-mindedly focused on spying abuses curving spying power curving sship think you’re blowing my mind and so we asked him I said you know can you call on my show he’s like yeah I’m a big fan of gland I think the work that he’s doing great I love John from Louisiana yeah and he came on my show no go you can go watch the interview and I’m hard to shock you are shocking me I had him on my show and after this interview I was like I love him one of the reasons one of the things we spent the most amount of time on was fisa reform and the need for fisa reform the fact that come on GL Tucker I’m swear I this is I’m telling you fisa reform was coming up in about three months where they had to extend the fisa law that allows the FBI the CIA to spy an American citizens the NSA Without Really any reforms and he was determined it was like his big issue that’s why he was on my show that’s why he liked what my work was he was like we cannot allow this fisa law to be renewed it is a grave threat to American democracy at the very least we need massive fundamental reforms blown and I was like oh my God I I and he’s very smart he’s like a smart lawyer he’s very informed about these issues I walked away super impressed that is what we spent most of our time on but also just will you put these clips on the internet the whole show is on the internet but will you just post these on social media because you’re fre I did but I’ll do it again because Mike Johnson become a speaker about two months later I don’t mean four years later two years later about two months after that three months at the most right when the fisa law is coming up and I was like oh it’s so great he was made speaker there’s no way this fisa law is getting passed not only did Mike Johnson say I’m going to allow the fisa renewal to come to the floor with no reforms not allowing any reforms he himself said it is urgent that we renew fisa without any reforms this is a crucial critical tool for our intelligence agencies and I put that CP everywhere when that happened showing where just two months earlier did you butt them together yeah of course I was attacking the out of Mike Johnson and then somebody finally asked him like but you’ve been saying all along for years for the last two years that you vehemently oppose this and suddenly now you’re for it what changed your mind and he was like yeah well when you’re a speaker you get access to a lot of things and I was taken to this secret room in the CIA and they showed me these very important things and these sensitive documents about how important these powers are and how devastating it would be if we put any reforms on them and so I realized that it was wrong what I had believed and now I believe this law has to be passed with no reforms you don’t have smart people like that he was already in Congress he had access to classified information getting briefing secret briefings you don’t have people that invested in position who with one meeting I can see someone really dumb being affected by that like oh these guys with big medals on their chest take you to like a secret super secret room inside the CIA like with all these locks and codes and things on the wall and you’re all impressed like oh my God I can’t challenge this he’s a very smart guy I don’t believe he Chang his mind so the question is why did he I don’t know I really don’t but I know that the person that was on my show two months earlier no longer exists wow I I can honestly say that’s one of the most shocking things I’ve heard in a long time because I I didn’t um I should also Echo what everyone else who’s ever met him will say which is nice guy you know not not a mean man or anything like that no great guy like he you know he adopted kids he like totally everything he says about decency respect for everybody I totally I I was even saying that he was you know with the whole thing about the question of whether this new Trans lawmaker was get to use the bathrooms he was asked about he was just like emphasizing the need for respect and decency and civility even if you know things are and and I believe he believes that like I believe he is in connection with the like best parts of Christianity and takes them seriously and conducts himself that way and always has nothing against Mike Johnson personally quite the contrary but to watch that happen was I mean as as as cynical as I am I don’t even know how to respond because I didn’t I I’ve interviewed Mike Johnson over the years but he was like some guy from Louisiana whatever I wasn’t paying close attention and it was only after he became speaker on the fisa question and on the question of funding Ukraine that was the other thing you go watch I talked him about that too he was like you know he did say he wasn’t at all like uh you know say like uh Matt Gates Type or um you know Tom Massie like we can’t fund that war that he wasn’t saying that he was he was like we can’t let Russia win but he was still pretty skeptical but it was really on these questions of fisa and the CIA and the FBI and spying powers and internet censorship powers where he was passionate and vehement that’s why I had him on you’re making my arm go up because I agree look I I’m not alleging anything because I don’t know anything I didn’t even know that he was that invested on precisely the opposite side but you know he made all these things possible and you know I had a conversation with him off camera so I probably shouldn’t be too detailed about it but he said something that I thought was like not only nonsensical but like insane like crazy and it just didn’t make any it was internally incoherent and he’s not stupid as you said and I and I got upset and I was like that doesn’t make any sense at all and um and he just kind of said no it does make sense it does it was like there was no answer it was just like wow this I saw I saw those with Obama too you have to like especially for people who are kind of new to power right like not Nancy Pelosi or Joe Biden or Mitch McConnell people have been in these positions for decades Mike Johnson went from a very back bench member of Congress to the third in line who controls the the House of Representatives you can only imagine the intense just unlimited amount of pressure that comes from multiple directions to force him to align himself with whatever the agenda is of the people who rule Washington same happened with Obama I believed Obama when he talked for two years when running for president about how he’s a constitutional law professor how he believes so much in the core of rights of the Constitution like Kus Corpus the right to contest your imprisonment to have evidence presented against you at place like onono and elsewhere have we wanted to uproot the worst abuses of bushen war and Terror then he gets into office and not only doesn’t uproot them but he starts extending them because again these generals come including the ones he likes who went to Princeton like David Petraeus you know the ones who Dazzle Obama and give him secret briefings about all the blood that’s going to be on his hands if he does any of the changes he spent two years promising and then suddenly on a dime he switches and there’s a lot of other pressure you can imagine as well like the stick as you said and anyone who thinks that this is that our intelligence agencies are above these kinds of things the naiv required to believe that is well they’re not above then of they’ve done it this is their currency it’s just amazing having spent you know all this time in Washington with all these people I have just who I know and by the way in in some cases like Mike Johnson I like it you you can’t really reach another conclusion other than there’s something very heavy duty going on behind the scenes like really profound going on and I just don’t know why no one has ever emerged from the system to say what it is is there not one there are very few courageous people you’re one of them but there just aren’t many in this world well I mean why doesn’t someone just just call call these people out one of the things that made Trump so threatening and that continues to make him so threatening is that in a lot of ways he was pulling the curtain he is guy it’s the fourth walls coming down yeah I mean you know I remember he he he just said openly yeah like as a billionaire as a businessman I just gave a candidate you know $50,000 and then they would automatically accept my call and do whatever I told them to do like who who says that in the top level politics like hey you’re I’m running for president I want you to know here’s how the system works you give a lot of money to some place that these lawmakers tell you to donate money to and then they do whatever you want they do your bidding when in that 2016 debate when he started rallying against the evil and the stupidity of the Iraq War because his principal uh opponent at the time was Jeb Bush who was backed by The Establishment and the audience started booing you know as though the America was rising up in defense of the Bush family he was like oh these seats here these are all the big Republican donors that’s the only people who are booing me because they’re supporting Jeb Bush and that’s if you ever been into a debate as I know you have that’s exactly how it is the big both parties they put their big donors the partisans right behind where they get where Their audience he’s only their reaction so Trump constantly was sort of doing that here’s how things really work and then once he started getting targeted by these agencies by the CIA the FBI starting with Russia gate but the steel dossier what Jim Comey did leing that to the media and then all those investigations that’s why he started saying these intelligence agencies are corrupted to their core they’re filled with people who have their own politicized agenda they we supposed to have an elected leader democratically elected leader who supervises these branches and these agencies in the executive branch and their duty is to carry out his policies but they don’t they subverted his policies they sabotaged them because they didn’t agree with them they were like their own branch of government completely powerful and he’s the first one I guess since Dwight isenhower who tried to warn of this on his way out after spending eight years and obviously the intelligence community and military industrial complex was way smaller when Dwight Eisen Howard tried to warn of how much of a threat it was to democracy and his fairwell address it was before Vietnam before uh the real buildup of the Cold War obviously before 911 they’re they’re sprawling now they’re they’re almost impossible to even analyze or quantify and Trump is the only one who’s trying to say these institutions are radically corrupted at their root they’re and that’s why he’s trying to choose people you know he picks some like comfortable institutionalists and Status Quo perpetuators like marar Rubio Lee stonic John Ratcliffe people like that just to give Washington a sense of okay there’s some people here we’re good with but then the people that he picked who are share his view that these institutions require radical overhaul they’re just undemocratic unaccountable corrupted those are the ones they’re trying to destroy well there’s there’s tulsy there’s Matt Gates there’s RFK Jr and a little bit to some extent Pete heg Seth I mean he’s not really ideologically uh unaligned but the problem is is that he doesn’t come from the Pentagon bureaucracy that’s what they care about most that’s a trillion dollar agency you know how many wheels that grease is in rathon and Boeing and General Dynamics that’s what they care about most is making sure that money goes where it’s supposed to go that’s why they’re concerned about him but the people who aren’t the ones that K could have picked easily are the ones who they’re most out to destroy because that’s what these power permanent power factions are is they are their own government and they wield the most power and they have sure considered Mike Johnson no threat at all they it’s like let’s take him and do what we have to do but you wonder like just I don’t know I mean look these guys are under pressure that you know we probably can’t imagine you know if somebody knew the thing you were most embarrassed about that would destroy your life and make your kids not like you or whatever I’m not speaking of Johnson specifically but but I I know a couple of people who I know are compromised in the US government and I sort of feel sad for them because how’d you like to be in that position but it it does all it would take is one Brave man to give a press conference you know there was actually a guy um K Roberts’s father hail bogs who stood up in Congress he was this majority leader in about 197 he was on the Warren Commission and he didn’t buy the did not buy the conclusions at all and he told other people that he was from Louisiana and he stood up and made some noises about on the on the floor of the house about how the CIA was you know doing things they were not supposed to do in domestic politics and had unchecked power Etc and he was immediately denounced as mentally ill probably an alcoholic and then he disappeared in a plane crash with begic in 1972 in Alaska the plane was never seen again so I me look I’m not saying that he was he was murdered for that though you know I would not at all be surprised if he was but why is he the last guy to say anything like that like well because he died in the plane crash and was declared mentally no but I mean this is the thing is you know uh I remember doing the Snowden reporting when there was all this controversy about government spying on people and the big reaction that I got that had been cultivated for a long time not just by the government but by Facebook Mark Zuckerberg famously said privacy is an archaic value or whatever don’t worry about privacy anymore people are saying I don’t have anything to hide like I’m not a terrorist I’m not a pedophile I don’t care what I’m government is spying on me and I would always say everybody has things to hide there are things that you don’t tell anybody there are things you only tell your psychiatrist only your spouse only your best friend things that you don’t want any other people to know that you’re petrified if everybody knew about you we we are private we need we we’re social animals we need connection to to society and other people but we also crave privacy without privacy we go insane and there’s no freedom without privacy none because that’s where descent and creativity and exploration and a rejection of societal Moray that’s where it resides in in in the private realm without that if you’re just being surveilled and watched all the time that breeds Conformity and so everybody needs privacy everybody values it everybody has something to hide and the ability to surveil people to know everything about I think what what actually happens is we’re so inculcated from birth to have this very idealistic image of our country and our government and in some ways it’s valid like I think I rever the Constitution you know I went to school to study it and then I went to practice it like I believe in its values like I think it’s a genius document I do too comes from the enlightenment like just I mean just a very like intellectually based philosophically based idea of how it was constructed like very carefully and there are things very good about the United States but if you think that the most powerful country on the planet the richest and most powerful country arguably ever to exist doesn’t have at its core in terms of the people who run it people who are willing to do anything to preserve their power to augment their power again it just takes a kind of naive that’s almost impossible to F people risk death every single day in this country to Rob liquor stores for $300 so you can’t tell me that control of a trillion dollar Federal agency or of a multi- trillion dollar government with you know vast nuclear the power to to decide who gets bomb where that’s what I’m saying the the most powerful institution in human history doesn’t have Sinister things going on what would people do to control that no the stakes are very high and I think the closer you are to it the more often you forget that you’re like oh it’s a secretary of whatever who cares well there’s you know people care understandably there’s a people will do anything for power and money um wow that’s so distressing did you um in your reporting and I always forget that you know you were behind the Snowden thing and thank you for that what a wonderful guy he is um but did you ever get any hint of what the pressure is that’s applied to politicians to comply and Obey yeah well first of all I do think like we were just talking about people who why don’t people stand up like Edward Snowden is a perfect example of somebody who believed the mythology of the government believed in you know he went to enlist in order to fight in Iraq he broke both of his legs he couldn’t join the military so he went to worked for the CIA and the NSA because he really believed in the and then what he saw was so horrifying was so corrupting was so deceitful that he risked his life and his Liberty which to this day he’s deprived of to inform everybody about what was going on by stealing under their nose documents that he could give to reporters so that reporters could tell the world what was happening that is kind of an example of that level of Courage of somebody saying here’s what’s going on um what Snowden gave us was a tiny picture of what the NSA does so obviously if there had been in there like specific blackmail sort of uh documents about how they were spying on particular politicians that’s something we would have you know reported on very aggressively and very early on so I can’t say I saw that but what I did see is all sorts of incidents of people at the NSA abusing their authority to spy on people who they had no right to be spying on including sometimes you know just things trivial as like ex-girlfriends or family members um but also when in other countries they wanted to impede or harm somebody they spied on those people all the time and use that information in part to gain power over them so of course who how can you expect human beings to resist that level of power when it’s all operating in the dark strong families are built on strong foundations and it all begins with what you bring into your home it’s hard though because big Pharma and the process food industry have spent decades putting you and your loved ones at risk pushing toxic harmful products that make you sick that have made our country sick it’s not a guess that’s happened so it’s well past time that someone decided to help you fight back Public Square is doing that Public Square is the leading family marketplace where you will find clean healthy products sourced from American small businesses that actually share your values with Christmas right around the corner now is the time to abandon the corporate food conglomerates in favor of something better healthier more pure make the switch stock your home with the quality Essentials and shop for gifts your whole family will love and it’s easy public square.com Tucker and you can get started public square.com Tucker so I mean you can’t you can’t have anything like representative government with that system in place the the whole idea of having a national security apparat as an intelligence community that operates in complete secrecy and that just does what it does permanently Without End and constantly expands its authorities and Powers because there’s no political gain and its budgets which are classified and its budgets which nobody you know that was one of the things we actually were able to see was the blackbook of the intelligence budget and we rep puted on the things that you know we thought were were newsworthy about that there’s zero transparency to any of this there’s no oversight you technically have like oversight in Congress and the Senate these Senate intelligence committees you select committees that were created after the church commission found all these you know what the church commission found just by itself you know CIA developments of medications to try and like you know make people lose control of their brains or inject people with diseases like really Sinister dark stuff that the CIA was doing that nobody knew about not even the president they just did it on their own it was a discovery of a secret government inside the government so the idea was we need at least some oversight this oversight they tell nothing to these committees the people who get put on those committees are people who are the ones who most support these intelligence communities it was run in the senate for years by Diane Feinstein her husband was a military contractor she was embedded in these agencies she defended everything that they did the one time she questioned them which was when she wanted to investigate the use of torture in the CIA John Brennan CIA spied on Diane Feinstein and on her entire staff he got caught doing it he lied and said he didn’t he finally admitted that it was done he apologized and there were no repercussions like let’s buy guns gun go Google John brenon spying on D I’ll never forget it and when that story first broke it was years ago was at least 10 years it was under the Obama he was CIA director under Obama and I remember thinking I don’t think the CIA would ever dare spy on the select committee on the Senate oversight Committee of the CIA of the Intel Community I mean I can’t imagine they would have the balls to do something like that that’s insane but I I had no idea and they did it on somebody who was one of their most their blindest loyalists the one time she stepped a little bit out of line because she wanted to investigate exactly what happened in the torture program so at that point like why don’t you why do people put up with that I mean I guess Frank Church did die of incredibly fast acting cancer so maybe that’s why I mean people must be afraid cuz you’d think out of 435 535 with the Senate there would be somebody was like this is not democracy this is totally immoral like I’m going to just stand up and take them on like but but but Tu just just let’s say that you know people had things on you that would as you put it destroy your reputation make your kids think very poorly of you would embarrass you for the rest of your life or destroy whatever you value in life it takes a very rare person to say ah eff it I’m gonna risk that happening um and you know I think we have the self-preservation tactic that’s why those kind of things like blackmail extortion are so effective is because they can force people to no I think I think you’re you’re you’re right look at how much these like sexual misconduct allegations are used when Julian Assange really got dangerous suddenly out of nowhere appeared two women claiming that he uh quote unquote raped them because the allegation was they had consensual sex with him but he didn’t use a condom when they had not given their consent to no condom and that became rape under Swedish law that’s what forced him to the Ecuadorian Embassy and led to everything that happened subsequently now with Matt Gates um the minute Matt Gates Pete Heth to like out of nowhere appears this alleged rape that nobody had heard about that nobody knew about it’s always the thing that always amazes me this is actually the best example in case anybody thinks oh our government doesn’t do that when Daniel ellberg leaked the Pentagon papers to the New York Times Washington Post and I remember when I first heard about this I was kind of confounded about why this happened obviously they were saying the normal things you say about people like that like oh he’s a Soviet asset he hates America he put troops In Harm’s Way because he showed the public that the government was lying for years about the viore like inside they were saying we can never win externally they were saying we’re on the verge of winning but what they also did and it’s the only reason Daniel urg ended up free right is they broke into his psychoanalyst office because they wanted to steal all the documents about his most intimate uh admissions to a psychoanalyst about his psychosexual life and Fantasies because that was the weapon of choice that they wanted to use to destroy him you that’s a fact the Nick Administration broke into the psychoanalyst office of Daniel ellberg when they couldn’t find the documents they plan to break in at the guy’s house and that was they finally put a stop to that but they did break into a psychoanalyst office and only because of that government misconduct did the judge dismiss the charges against Dan urg who otherwise was headed to prison for the rest of his life why would that be a response to a whistleblower revealing to the press that then revealed to the public that the government was systematically lying about the Vietnam War it’s because if you can have that information over somebody and then use it against them you destroy I remember when when that happened with Julian Assange no one wanted anything to do with Julian nange anymore no one wanted to mention his name it’s just like o this person’s guilty of of accused of rape I just don’t want anything to do with that so if you could have shown that Daniel ellberg had this fantasy or had done this or had done that in the intimacy and privacy of his own life it just everybody would have wanted to avoid it totally it’s totally true did you ever find yourself on the wrong end of any of that since you were very high-profile I mean I think the important thing is that if you want to confront the government if you want to spill Secrets if you want to bring unwanted transparency which happens to be the job of a journalist I know people forget that but that is the job of a journalist yeah if you go into journalist that’s what you’re supposed to try to do you have to as best you can guard against that like you have to protect yourself make sure that your own house is in order as much as possible because that will be a huge vulnerability but as I said before everything has everyone has things to hide there’s no one who doesn’t 100% And and it’s also true that if you know you get really attacked in a in a scary way you don’t want to talk about it I mean I feel I feel that I have been that has happened you know not sex stuff but I’ve definitely felt a lot of pressure and you don’t you don’t want to you know it’s not just sex stuff yeah there’s there’s all sorts of things in our past that we do that we’re embarrassed by worry the Intel agencies would try and hurt you yeah I mean dumb question here’s the thing like I you know I think a lot of people remember but uh my husband who’s now deceased but at the time he went to Germany because there was a part of the archive that was corrupted and we knew there was a lot of important do there and it was with Laura pitus and she using her genius had figured out how to access it no one else could but she didn’t trust anybody including the guardian to give it to to bring to me the only person she trusted was David I couldn’t travel outside Brazil because there was a concern that I would be arrested by the us so I had to stay in Brazil so only David could go and get those documents and the way we talked about it was in a very secure secret way we were using the highest levels of encryption of the time that Snowden insisted on and when David went to Germany he came back home through Heathrow but at herro the British arrested him and detained him and threatened to prosecute him under an anti-terrorism law and the only reason they let him out was because the Brazilian government it became a huge story in Brazil the Brazilian government was like give us back our citizen immediately and so they let him go and then David SU the the British government over human rights abuses because they were detaining him for journalism and the British government said in their papers when they defended their actions we knew exactly what he was doing in Germany we knew exactly what he was carrying and that’s the reason why we detained him because we wanted to prevent this the secret documents from getting out into the public because it harms British national security Now obviously we got the archive anyway and we reported on those documents but they admitted they knew and were listening to our conversations about why he was going there they knew when he was going there they everything was being tracked and so when you know did you ever figure out how I knew they were using I mean part of the reporting that we did was that the NSA had cracked even the most sophisticated levels of encryption so things that people thought were safe there’s nothing 100% fullprof And at the time we were among the most watched people in the world because we had in our hands the most sensitive secrets from the world’s most powerful government that we were going around the world publishing to inform people of journalistically and so of course we knew we were being spied on by probably a lot of people it’s just the British were forced to admit it and when you get that confirmation as opposed to like a belief or suspicion the level of invasiveness you feel is hard to express because they’re not just listening to the parts of your conversations where you’re talking about the Snowden documents oh I oh I know oh I know firsthand yeah no I don’t yeah I mean you had private conversations leaked as well when you were trying to interview president and had massive problems with Ukrainian Intel Service uh etc etc it but it’s not about me I don’t hold any institutional power it’s just interesting if you see what happens in your own life just by talking about I haven’t done anything ever just sit around Studio talk to people uh but you know you see the pressure they apply to you like what would it be like to be you know the chairman of the Intel committee or the speaker of the house or the president of the United States I mean I can’t even imagine and it just shows you what a remarkable person Trump is he is just so he’s weirdly resistant to that stuff and that is that’s why they hate him I mean remember all the stuff that came out in the 2016 when they thought he might win like the Access Hollywood tape that came out of nowhere and I’m you know the stormmy Daniel stuff you know they threw everything out there and Trump is is a very rare person who’s just kind of Shameless like he doesn’t feel a sense of Shame and he doesn’t back down no matter what he goes he gets more aggressive against people he try to force him to it’s just his Instinct it’s who he is I watched him for many decades when I was a lawyer in New York when he was a you know big real estate local constantly being sued in lawsuits everybody knew how he was and that’s what is so threatening about him it’s not his ideology or his belief the fact think he’s in Russ it’s the fact that he’s a r right none of no one cares about that no one believes that it’s the fact that he’s immune to the type of control that for decades they’ve been able to impose people who wield any power let alone the power of the presidency well just type the the um the current state of us Russia relations or the war that we’re about to like how do you how do you think this ends I mean if you’re sitting in Moscow obviously if there’s a barrage of weapons you know aimed at Moscow St Petersburg your major cities that’s one thing if there’s a limited number of missiles aimed in Cur where you know Ukrainian forces are that’s another and obviously they know what we talked about which is that in about seven weeks there’s going to be a new American president with whom they’ve dealt extensively and despite claims that he’s some sort of you know lacky of Putin he basically did the two things that were most threatening to Russian interests he he sent lethal arms to Ukraine after Obama refused to Trump did I didn’t agree with it but that’s what he did and what he did even more so that was more threatening damaging to Russia is he spent years trying to batter the Europeans out of the NRE 2 pipeline he was like why would you be buying gas from Russia you’re getting dependent on Russia and we’re the ones who pay for your protection you should be buying it from us that’s the N selling natural gas to Europe was the anchor the key to Russian vital interests and Trump threatened those vital interests continuously so the idea like anyone who’s even a little bit rationally thinking would understand that this claim that he’s being blackmailed by Putin while at the same time he’s simultaneously doing the two most threatening things to Russian vital National interest you would immediately recognize what a a fictitious claim that was no he’s being blackb by the US Intel agencies and in fact more so our government is the fascist state that they claim Russia is exactly so so and that’s not but but so I think they know that you know they obviously know Trump’s coming in and and they feel like he wants to go in a different direction with the war and so even though there is going to be pressure on Putin as there would be on the United States and any other country to respond in kind to Nato and the United States now bombing Russia basically I think as long as it’s limited as long as it stays limited to KK as long as it’s not you know in large numbers knowing that Trump is coming into office I think they understand that that’s an opportunity to try and end this war without its escalation I hope again as you said we’re depending on Putin’s restraint and rationality so is Christmas really about buying stuff you’ll be forg given if you assumed it is cuz that’s the message you receive but most people sense deep down there may be a little bit more to Christmas maybe this is the time of year to focus on growing your relationship with God to remember there is a God and reach out to that God well to do that you can check out hallow the Hallow app and it’s Advent pray 25 challenge hallow is the world’s number one prayer and meditation app and for good reason it’s amazing it’s fantastic we use it we’re proud to use it this Advent we highly recommend you join Hallow’s prayer challenge for God so loved the world boy that’ll put meaning in your Christmas for sure got spiritual stories Reflections musics testimonies it’s really well done you’re not going to get it anywhere else in as easy a form just go to hallow download it and Bam it’s right there so this is an opportunity to be transformed by God this Christmas don’t wait get there 3 free months right now when you sign up at hall.com Tucker my wife comes home and tells me all about it every day uh spend this Christmas working on something that matters your relationship with God maybe the only thing that matters we hope you will hello so um among the many people Donald Trump has spoken to since winning a week and a half ago is a Joe and Mika and Joe scarber mik binski uh they have a very low rated show on MSNBC which I do think has outsized influence the numbers are really are small people in Washington watch it that’s exactly it that’s exactly right and um so I think the show does have influence like I disagree with every single word ever uttered on that show but I don’t think it’s totally insignificant you know it’s not Joy Reed so uh they went to marago to meet with Trump um like what do you make and then now they’re saying well we went because we were afraid that we’re going to be persecuted if we didn’t kiss the ring or something like what no it’s what their excuse is even more pathetic which is we’re journalists you have to go and talk to the people in power journalists um but uh I think those two in particular are singularly pathetic and I realize saying singularly pathetic in the context of employees of the corporate media seems like a designation that no one deserves alone but I think in their case they really Merit that distinction because I think like most of the people who work in corporate media like the Rachel mattow like the Lawrence o’d donals and the Don Lemons and those kind of people I think they believe all the insane unhinged stuff like I think they really believe that a Russian agent that Putin is blackmailing him that Trump wants to like put them in camps like I think it’s insane but like credit for at least actually saying what they really believe is as Preposterous and laughable as it is Joe Scaro has no beliefs other than his own advancement and self-importance okay let’s remember in the 1990s he was elected not as a republican Congressman but as a radical conservative with the whole new Gage like young fire Brands were going to go in and like radically reformed re you know changed the the country and and Washington no more of that anywhere in Joe Scaro like this radical transformation of institutional power and then as Megan Kelly said no show did more to boost Donald Trump in 2015 and 2016 in that in the in the Republican primary than Joe and Ma they were down at maralago all the time they L Trump they were best friends with Trump they laughed with him they let him call another show all the time part because it was very beneficial to to that show it was the only thing that rid he Trump saved all their jobs but they also love just being proximate to power like that yeah that’s the thing that they crave most and then once what really happened was Scarboro thought that he was going to be chosen as Trump’s vice president he really wanted to and when Trump rejected him in favor of Mike Pence and then also MSNBC turned into this fanatical anti-trump Network where the only people who watched were Trump haters at both out of personal affront but also out of survival they had to turn into a fullon trump hating show you couldn’t have the morning show of 3 hours be someone positive toward or neutral about Trump when the whole rest of the network everyone who watched may I just ask you to pause for a sec I’m just suggesting this Scarboro who I used to know really well he thought he was going to be V yeah that’s what they remember how close they no I remember that I didn’t know oh yeah yeah yeah he that’s you should come to the United States more often I learn a lot um I think my distance is what enables me to to learn things um so yeah that was a big part of it and but also it was survival at MSNBC and so they turned into these you know Joe scarbo Mr radical conservative let’s change all Wasington work became Mr institutionalist you know the people he had on his show are like Richard hos and like Norm orstein like all these these like Council on Foreign Relations think Tes people who who were obsessed with hating Trump as well and it became Ground Zero for Trump as Hitler they were saying as recently as two months ago or a month ago like Trump is comparable to Adolf Hitler he is a Nazi figure mik brazinsky went on The View and cried and said Trump wants to murder women women are going to die because of Donald Trump he’s a fascist he’s a racist they said it every day over and over and then Trump wins and their whole influence was because they were Joe Biden’s favorite show Joe Biden would wake up at like 600 am like many geriatrics do because he went to bed at like 7 o’clock p.m. and he would watch Morning Joe and then he would hear you know Joe Biden is the greatest president in FDR Joe scarber said that he personally can assure the country having spent so much time around Joe Biden that he’s sharper than ever he runs intellectual circles around all the Republicans who are claiming that he’s cognitively impaired this is like a month before the debate he was saying that so of course they Joe Biden watched that show every day that’s what gave Joe Scarboro her sense of importance was like oh I’m close to the White House he was at the White House all the time now Biden’s gone Biden’s not an asset anymore Trump is back in power and one of the things that I happened amazingly since the since K’s lost is that the MSNBC audience which is already tiny has basically completely disappeared like the number of people watching those shows when they’re live in prime time with that big gigantic corporate power behind them promoting it it’s it’s less than a lot of like YouTube shows including yeah including like I don’t mean like the cumulative audience of how many people watch YouTube or YouTube video at the end of the day I just mean live watching like Dan Bonino show has I think un Rumble has like five or six or seven times more viewers Than msnbc’s Pride time this is UN Rumble you know which a lot of people don’t even know about don’t even watch um that audience is gone in part because they feel disillusion that the people they trusted who told them Trump was going to prison the whole Trump family was going to prison Trump could never win he was going to be in jail before the election all the women were going to rise up and vote for kamla out of anger toward Trump none of that happened and they’re like I’ve been watching the show every day for nothing it was I was it like none of it happened none of it was true and that audience is gone half out of dis illusionment and anger but half out of just like kind of checking out through impotence and helplessness and I think that they’re desperate the only way they think they can get people to come back on is to have Trump come back on their show and they’re Trump is going to make them crawl around on the floor multiple times work like a dog yeah they were like Joe and M were like Trump was incredibly uh cheerful and happy of course he was he loves seeing you humiliate yourself because you know he knows you need them now I don’t think that you know weekly interview with Trump which is not going to happen anyway but even if it did was going to save MSNBC no because who would watch it because no conservatives are going to trust that show or MSNBC and no liberals want to see MSNBC host you know how angry Liberals are about just even the fact that Joe and Miko went to to marago so who who’s the audience for that they’re caught like Liz Cheney like you know I have to say of all the reasons I’m so grateful that kamalo lost um seeing Democrats turn on Liz Cheney and seeing her stranded between the parties in no man’s land the best it honestly I can’t there’s a piece by John Nichols in the nation today I don’t read the nation much anymore but you know occasionally the nation is like kind of true to itself not always but sometime I don’t agree with with it but John Nichols wrote this piece about KL harray where he he goes through like all the places that she went with Liz cheny went with K Harrison like not only did it not work she turned off Republicans like the idea was you know we we’ve got Liz Cheney campaigning with us a lot of Republicans know like Donald Trump will vote for us it’s like just the opposite happened you know it it was so predictable and so obvious at the time it predict also like what made K’s campaign like for the six seconds that it seemed like it had some like air to it was this like vibrancy of young people you know like celebrating the emergence right yeah totally and so you then take Liz cheni and like send Bill Clinton to Michigan to like lecture everybody in the Muslim Community already hates you because you’ve been bu buying Israel about how the Israelis are totally right and it’s all the the fault of the Arabs and then you take Liz Dick Cheney’s daughter with you through the Rust Belt where like all those policies devastated their lives all those Wars and you think Liz think about I mean this is the thing think about how out of touch and cloistered and in a bubble you have to be to think that you’re going to win an election depending on people who are in the working class who feel alienated from society who feel like DC doesn’t work for you by taking the daughter of like the face of the American establishment Dick Cheney around with you as if she’s your running mate and people are craving change and you have sitting there with Liz Cheney like the who people only know because she’s she was the vice president’s daughter her the her dad was Dick Cheney and not just Dick Cheney but somebody who supports a whole range of policies that Americans vehemently reject now and I think that’s more than anything what people like people on media have finally had to come to grips with is first of all it’s good that Liz Cheney actually isn’t the secretary of defense or secretary of state that also is good even though there are a couple people in Trump’s campaign who have very similar views like markby Li Cheney but and at Le stonic but be that as as side it’s good that Liz Cheney specifically is not any of those positions but uh I think the best thing is that you have all these people inside these cloyed bubbles in Washington who really thought that they were the conscience of the nation the voice of the nation and not only were they applauding the decision to take L Cheney but they have been spending eight years claiming that Donald Trump is a white supremacist who wants to put minorities in Camp and not only did Donald Trump win the election but there was millions of non-white Voters oh yeah who for the first time left the Democratic party and went to vote for Trump so imagine you wasted eight years of your life screaming and screeching like a petulant bird who has been like shot Donald Trump’s a racist he’s a fascist he hates he only likes white people and then you watch millions of Latino people and and black people and Asian people and Muslims refuse to vote for KL Harris you obviously like I have no influence at all I’m completely out of touch well but it’s so so good to know that about yourself I mean this happened to me by the way they’re all kind vehemently opposed to abortion which I think is like horrifying and but lots of people don’t agree with me and so I see the you know roie Wade comes down and you see these ballot initiatives say you know we’re going to allow abortion till birth and I’m like wow I’m so glad it’s up for a vote and then it turns out the voters just don’t agree with me at all even in red States it’s true it’s true like that was hard for me to accept because I am I never talked about it but I was just so I’m so sincere on the subject I’m just not for abortion period And so but you have to be real like okay sometimes people agree with you sometimes they don’t but there’s something about the Democratic base which really is just basically just like unhappy college educated white ladies that’s really who it is honestly honestly I mean and they they say that they’re like we’re we’re relying on affluent women in the suburbs that’s their B that’s exactly but the unhappy ones I mean I’m related to some happy ones they’re not voting for k Harris but the UN the ones who are sort of disappointed in their husbands and in their lives or whatever I get it I’m not being mean but it’s just true but they should know that they’re in the subset of a subset and that not everyone agrees them I think that’s the beginning of wisdom I mean it has been for me like not everyone agrees with me that’s okay but the thing is like you were just saying you read the nation sometimes yeah I go out of my way to read everything everybody you know I try and have people in my Lives who have very different views on you know I have a lot of people in my life in Brazil for example who worship Lua I have a lot of people in my life who hate Lu worship bolsonaro people who are in between I want that like I want to hear constantly from you want to be challenged all the time not be oied I’m telling you I know a lot of these people I used to be on MSNBC all the time I’ve been friends with a lot of the people who they though oh they despise me with burning passion um but uh in part because nobody hates things more than no one the person always most hated is the one perceived as the heretic of course you know but but I was never really on their side in the way that they thought actually anyway but anyway it doesn’t matter the I I know a lot of these people and what has happened on MSNBC is that or or places like in the New York Times a bed page similar people who support Trump don’t exist in that world there’s not one opad p writer at the New York Times of the dozens who is a trump supporter even though half the country is more than half the country is like Ross du is like the person closest to like sort of understanding the Trump movement but he certainly doesn’t like Donald Trump at all and other than that they just don’t have it doesn’t exist in the world there’s nobody ever on an MSNBC on their shows who brings that perspective of why they support Donald Trump so if you’re only talking to people who are like-minded and a lot of them have now left Twitter trying to go to some other platform where only they’re only there they don’t want to they really don’t want to hear any desent and you’re living a certain kind of life you know they’re well paid they like are cled in these like affluent places in the United States like in the in the east coast like Brooklyn and and Manhattan and Washington and Northern Virginia how do you not realize that the life here leading is so fundamentally different from the people on whose behalf you claim to be speaking and I do think a lot of them even though they’re going to resist it and battle it have to swallow this election as a complete repudiation of not just themselves but their entire purpose in life their entire fun you think that they again I just want to say how non-judgmental I feel about this that has happened to me I’ve been fired I have found my views repudiated by the public at large those are very important moments to me personally they made me a better person so I am hoping that they internalize the pain and learn from it do you think they will yeah I mean what what always amazes me is like you know I really did grow up like in a working-class environment but like my whole life that was you’re the only one yeah no I mean there are other people who grew up like you know I wasn’t like poor but I was not even near middle class work at McDonald’s yeah my mom worked at McDonald’s she like my parents got divorced when I was seven my father was an accountant he had three marriages actually you are alone like I don’t know any anybody and I mean this I don’t know anybody in journalism I know people whose mom worked at McDonald’s I don’t know anyone in journalism whose mom worked at McDonald’s I’m just like I guess my point is that like of course that shaped me for a long time but I realize now that that’s not my life any longer like and it hasn’t been for you know 10 years 15 years like my life has been very separate from that so I have a great amount of humility about my ability to speak for people who have a different kind of life because you of course the way you live shapes your perspective shapes your understanding shapes your PRI priorities and it amazes me that these people don’t have that humility at all and so I I think they’re resisting it like they’re you know that was what Obama did remember when he was like yeah I know there’s a lot of black men who don’t want to vote for KLA who are going to vote for Trump that’s because you all hate women and you’re misogynous and then they’re basically saying they’re reason a lot of Latino men what an arrogant douchebag to say something like that you know and there’s a perfect example like he spends all his time in like Richard Branson’s yacht yeah I know and you know just with the highest level of Jet Set and he thinks he’s going to go and speak to like black working-class men do you disagree with me you’re a bigot that’s like that’s such a crazy place to start any conversation it’s so alienating and I think I think this kind of condescension that but the other thing is like the main argument is that like they’re all stupid like they’re victims of disinformation they’re misled they have all these alternative media they’re listening to that don’t have the controls that H with us with they’re getting fall you know basically they’re stupid they’re they’re like misled they’re gullible so either they’re racist or misogynist or stupid that’s their explanation that’s the thing they’re clinging to you know like oh they don’t realize how good they had it under Biden how great the economy is how much KLA Harris and Joe Biden did for them they just don’t because they were told that it was untrue they can’t figure it out for their on their own like the condescension reaped out of like just it oozes out of every pore of their being and then they wonder why people despise them and their culture and their subculture it’s who who wants that it is nauseating but despite so what I’m saying is that they’re not they don’t have the attitude you had which is like oh it’s actually good to be humbled to like realize that things that you thought about the world need to be re-evaluated there’s no self-criticism no reflection in fact every Democrat thinks like oh yeah I know why we lost it’s been what I was saying all along none of them were saying that but you know they’re like Democrats did this and klet did that you know they all are trying to pretend that if people had just listened to them the Democrats would have won even though all on they were like oh combo is running the most brilliant campaign ever but what I’m saying is that the result is so overwhelming so kind of pointed and devastating to their world viw as I said I think the thing that has really shaken them the most even though they’re fighting it they’re not embracing it they’re fighting it but they can’t is that so many non-white voters oh yeah are and Trump made huge gains in almost every nonwhite sector of society I mean Trump was saying that New Jersey and New York are swing States and people were laughing at him and he only lost New Jersey by five points and did the best any Republican has done in in in New York City in many many years because of how many black and Latino and Asians and and Muslims voted for Trump non-white voters and so when that happens like you don’t even get to blame white people but you you you have to accept that the people who you think you own who have mindless loyalty to you disobeyed you and didn’t listen to you that’s what makes them feel really shaken inside it’s it’s a slave revolt and if you read the accounts of people who live through slave revolts not just in the American South but like in Haiti or you know anywhere they’re always wherever you have slavery you’ve got Slave revolts at some point they’re always so shocked like they they they can’t believe that like the nanny came after them with a knife like I we thought you loved us it’s so crucial to their world view to believe no it’s the I mean those people Central to their world view is that they’re benevolent leaders of these people it’s like that scene in Animal House Otis He Loves Us sure he does drunk frat boy yeah no people always imagine that the people they control their employees their surfs love them and what they need to understand I think this is just true in life is that the people sub you resent you they may like you but they also resent you there’s just the subordinance alone that’s what I’m saying and it’s one of the reasons you see hostility among women toward men just in general not not a defining characteristic but there’s a little bit of there is a little bit of that if you’re in the subordinate sexual position you’re like a little mad about it I’m just I’m sorry I think that sorry to like Channel Dr Freud but there’s some truth in that and I I mean it’s what we were talking about before about you I i’ I’ve said this so many times like just uh if you belong to one of these so-called marginalized groups that liberals think they own and have an entitlement to control you will never see more naked and unadorned bigotry contemptuous bigotry than you will see toward individuals within that group who disobey obviously like I remember when I really started splitting from the left I never had real homophobia in my entire life before I only started seeing it like once I had that breach once once you questioned uh before you were a member of the lbgt community mariz figure yeah exactly exactly and a pedophile whatever you know all the things and then are you serious oh yeah and and and then you know like the way they have always talked about Thomas no it’s it’s it’s amazing it’s hilarious the way they talk about Clarence Thomas and you know any black person who’s a who’s been a conservative same with like women who are you know uh goria steum said about the people the young women who were refusing to vote for Hillary and voting for Bernie when asked like why they were doing that she’s like cuz young girls go where the boys are you know like the most demeaning insulting thing you can say about women that they they don’t think on their own they just like mindlessly do whatever the boys are that and so now you’re seeing it’s like oh yeah like Latinos like are very misogynistic and primitive so are black men they hate women you know they’re easily misled they’re lwi information voters you know the amount of contempt that liberal Elites have for these non-white voters who didn’t do as they’re told is almost scary well it is scary because it’s a psychological condition that’s of course why they hate whites that they’ve been because they’re losing the white vote and a second they started to lose the white vote then whites became the problem in the country it’s like where’s all this anti-white hate coming from well it’s coming from the Democratic party institutionally because they’re being rejected by white photos yeah and they they were ready to they thought they were going to get white women they get to embrace like white women were going to rise up and join them against Trump but a majority of of white women voted for Trump incredible so they’re going to get I mean I will say to his Hispanics in the United States you’re about to be the subject of a hate campaign because oh and like the and and Muslims too who didn’t want to vote for Kam because the you know because they were feeding Israel I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen I can’t wait till you people are deported I can’t wait to see you blown up in Gaza there’s this sentiment like you’re going to get what you deserve and I’m going to laugh about it and I’m going to cheer it same with the with Latinos I can’t wait till you’re deported you’re going to get what you deserve when you’re a well is is deported like really sick stuff Joy Reed I’m not talking about obscure people on the internet like she’s gone on the air almost every night and talk that way attack attack the Hispanics yeah the well and and Muslims and Arabs well so the best part about this is the language barrier and very so few liberals like even bother to listen to what people actually think or say they just they’re not interested you know it’s like they treat everyone like a three-year-old but when they find out the social views of your average Central American which I find hilarious and kind of great but whatever leaving My Views aside the average social views of a Central American just on the social issues are so far far out of what’s considered acceptable like but they have no idea which is so ironic because Democratic strategists used to openly boast about what if you say you’ll get called as a white supremacist with the replacement theory that oh we’re going to import all these people into United States make them citizens and they’re going to be supporters of the democratic party and we’re going to rain forever like a thousand years because these are all our voters when they get here and they find out that actually they but but I have to say like there’s a great article in New York Magazine which is words that pass my lips very very rarely where this writer um who actually wrote a very critical profile of me like five years ago so who is it uh his name is Simon I just I I just talked to him today about this article because it’s a great article I would I’m embarrassed I don’t know his name but that I can’t remember his last name um it’s hyphenated so it’s just a little complicated but anyway I really recommend this article he just went what he did was he purposely went to black latino uh Asian neighborhoods where there was a lot of trump votes and he just walked around on the street and talked to as many people as he could who voted for Trump about why and what I think people don’t understand is that the Latino and black NGO presidents who get put on TV who are supposed toly there yeah have less in common with the people on whose behalf they’re speaking than like the white host of these shows way less and so you go there certainly less than me I mean I have like attitudes that are pretty popular in those communities right exactly but still like you know a lot of them are just like as far from being like you know deceived by disinformation they’re like it was a Democratic party that supported NAFTA like we’re having trouble paying for our healthc care or food for our kids and they’re sending billions of dollars to Ukraine and to Israel to all these other countries they’re just talking about the struggles that they have in their lives and the way in which the government doesn’t care there’s some social issue stuff too but once you get to the United States you become a citizen you integrate pretty quickly and the thing you you don’t sit around thinking about transe or whatever gay marriage or these are ancillary issues even if they don’t agree with the Democratic party on they might that might contribute to the alienation the fact that you know they had that’s why that comma ad was effective not because people are sitting around thinking about whether trans people should get government funded uh sexual assignment surgeries in in prison but because it was like a proxy for explaining that these people have nothing in common with your lives they don’t care about you they don’t care about your values had they felt economically satisfied I don’t think that would have resonated because that’s not what people care about but most of them are just worried about the same thing everybody else is worried about and they finally got to the point where they realiz we’ve so they’re even more worried exactly they’re the people who get most affected especially by immigration totally I mean the people who lose their jobs with immigration often are non-white people black black working class Latino working class and they feel resentful about everything that’s being done for you know there was a lot of oh they’re giving free housing and free meals to illegal immigrants while I can’t feed my family I really recommend the article it’s it’s like not done with caricature it’s not like handpicking a few comments it’s a very long article and it just lets these people speak for themselves in a very revealing way what’s just so funny is you live in Brazil which is another continent you’ve been there a while how long 20 years 20 20 years um but I bet if I had called you the week before the election sure should have done but I got busy but um if I’d said like what do you think black and Latino people men married people in New York City around the country what do you think they think politically I bet you would have been pretty I know you would have figured this out yeah I was talking about this you don’t even live here I know but I lived here like for the first 38 years of my life it’s the only country of which I’ve ever been a citizen I’m here all the time but I do think that and this but how do you know that and they don’t that’s the point I think that distance gives you a a perspective like the fact that I’m my friends are not media and political people in New York and Washington that I’m not cooked into their to their worldview that I’m not subsumed with it that I’m not dependent upon it in any way gives me I think a broader perspective like if you live in Northern Virginia and you like spend all your time in Washington in green rooms or New York you’re going to be so distorted in the things that you think about the world it but also I think you have to like go out of your way to to to okay I don’t want to be told what people think by other people who are reporting to be their spokes people I want to hear from them directly I want to look at the polling data I want to understand what they’re thinking and you could just see it you could hear it you could feel it you could observe it analytically in data but they just I remember people on CNN saying you know I think it was uh van Jones or no it was barari sers who was like I can I don’t care what the polls say I can guarantee you there won’t be more than 5% of black men voting for Donald Trump I don’t care what the polls say there won’t be anywh near 15% of you know he barari sers said that oh yeah just like I don’t care what the poll say I’m not like a Hu you know I’m not a huge expert on Black America and I don’t have a million black friends but I have some act like actual friends I don’t know a liberal black guy I know some who vote for Democrats or whatever but I don’t know I literally don’t know except like the guys you see in green rooms went to Princeton or like fake preachers or something but like actual black men I don’t know any the only ones are in the media the ones that I just don’t know any person I’ve never even met one so like what is this and but this has been if you think about the Democratic party the thing you fear most is that these groups that have been voting for you for generations and have been pass had loyalties passed down from their parents grandparents who don’t even think about not voting for you every election once that breaks I’m not saying that those people who voted for Trump will never vote Democrat again but now they know there’s an option free people who they want and is more alarming petrifying to democratic party Elites than seeing that I think it’s really good it’s good for the country um the Democratic party in its you know current iteration is just is almost purely destructive um and shouldn’t be you you need a two-party system where both parties are represent have it’s integrated like I I remember like the smartest Republic like JD Vance Josh hotley like the ones who really understand that you can’t have the same Republican party as you did in 1980 have always been describing the future of the Republican party as a multi-racial workingclass coalition and to watch people identifying primarily based on their citizenship and their class that’s what you want as opposed to constantly being divided by race is so amen promising to see well it’s essential or else you have Rwanda I mean because you know your class um can change but your race doesn’t change and so if you engender conflict on the basis of immutable characteristics it’s not solvable and so you don’t want to ever do that you make people hate each other based on how much they make okay where they live even but their skin color well as you say that gives them the idea of change like hey we can change the government exact right exactly whereas a mutable characteristic by definition don’t no no that’s like that’s like Albanian blood Feud that last 800 years like you can’t do that but has been the predominant liberal mindset is to encourage people to see themselves as part of insulated factions who hate other factions based on those characteristics and there’s almost nothing more offensive to me about what American liberalism RIT large has done than try and impose that framework on people to divide People based on things that in fact don’t divide them well yeah especially since the experience of just like living in this country you know is so different from what they describe I I’m have always been on the right I’ve never had anybody anybody who’s Black Or Hispanic or non-white ever attack me one time in public as a racist I’ve only had affluent white women attack me that way I don’t see people hating each other on the basis of race I don’t I’m sure there’s racism I know that there is because people are flawed but it’s not a defining fact in this country that I have ever know I don’t know what the hell they’re talking about I mean they’re trying to scare the out of people to get their votes that’s it well obviously millions of non-white people agree with you they just went and voted for the white candidate over the black one and the white candidate who they were told was Adolf Hitler and wanted to put all nonwhite people in camps they were looking around they like that’s not my experience so I gota just one last question like that we began the conversation with the war that we’re now in we’re in a war with Russia um and that really is something that the Biden Administration is doing to punish the incoming Trump Administration I think and to prevent it from acting you know with the autonomy any Administration should have but they’re also going to leave all behind all kinds of I they’re not going to spend the next seven weeks doing nothing and one of the things they’re going to try to do is increase censorship I think over the next seven weeks or am I just being paranoid I think you’re right they’re obviously not going to do nothing they’re going to try and fortify everything as much as possible from the kind of change the American people just voted for the party of democracy is going to do that um censorship in my view began like systemic censorship on the internet began as a reaction to 2016 without question both to brexit especially to Trump right that’s when you saw the emergence of these highly well funded disinformation experts the concoction of this fake expertise called disinformation experts who what how did people get to be that where where do you go to school to be a disinformation expert like a floating Arbiter of truth but they needed to radically intensify censorship because they blamed free speech and the free flow of information on uh they blame that for for brexit first but especially for Trump’s Victory and they wanted to crack down on that there’s always now an ongoing effort to try and crack down on that um I think though what they’re going to try and do is look at the areas that they believe Trump is trying most radically to change beginning with foreign that’s foreign policy the thing that they value most that’s the by far you know centerpiece of how America runs in their View and they’re going to spend as much of their time subverting him and sabotaging Him in Advance even though he just won the election by a pretty like solid margin and there are some things that’ll be reversible but if you escalate the war in Ukraine and Trump now is coming into a war that the Russians perceive accurately to be not just a proxy war with the West behind Ukraine but where NATO is actually bombing Russia it becomes infinitely more difficult to keep under control and to resolve the problem is that the risks of this are so great that it it actually sickens me more than almost anything I’ve ever seen me too that they’re willing to do this on the way out to just prevent this worth mending and trifling with the risk of a nuclear exchange with the lives of every person on Earth yeah um I just got to close by saying uh there’s been interns in my whole life you know spent a lot of time around journalists bragging about the risk they take I’ve never known a journalist who’s been threatened with prison more times than you have um probably once every six months I just check to make sure that you’re not in prison not and my friends do that too I’m always assuming you’re going to wind up in prison for challenging the powerful and revealing what they’re actually doing so I just want to say congratulations on remaining free thank you I appreciate that it’s not always been such an easy task there have been times when I’ve gotten pretty close including recently but uh I feel like if you’re not hated by and feel and perceived as a threat by people in power you’re not doing your job that’s what I really believe well then by that measure you’re the most successful journalist of Our Generation which I already thought anyway but congratulations that thank you Ducker Glen green always great to see you thank [Music] you so it turns out that YouTube is suppressing our show I know shocking that in an election year with everything at stake Google would be putting its thumb on the scale and preventing you from hearing anything that the people in charge don’t want you to hear but it turns out it’s happening so what can you do about it well we could whine about it but that’s a waste of time I’m not in charge of Google or we could find a way around it a way that you could actually get information that’s true it’s not intentionally deceptive and the way to do that on YouTube we think is to subscribe to our Channel subscribe and you’ll have a much higher chance of hearing what we say and we hope you will
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