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so everybody gets tied up is Mexico paying for the wall or we paying for the I don’t really care who’s paying for the wall because the taxpayers are getting an amazing return on the investment from that wall system improved security less agents and we didn’t send those agents home we sent those agents up the coast to California they started knocking down boats left and right we put them on task forces to look for terrorism joint terrorism task force tunnel task force and we shifted them over to Arizona and Texas where they either didn’t have wall or it wasn’t wasn’t feasible all the time um or or it just wasn’t there yet right but my point is they became more effective so it doesn’t really matter how you look at it unless your intent is to let people just flow across into the United States at will there’s really nothing negative about the border wall the opinions of the guests and hosts are their own and do not represent the opinions of Ironclad the border patrol or the Department of Homeland Security we cut through the partisan talking points we’re not interested in perpetuating fear we’re interested in seeking truth hearing what’s really going on on America’s Borderland welcome to Borderland in Ironclad original I’m Vince varer host and on this episode we have former Chief of the border patrol Rodney Scott telling us about his experience uh as the chief during the Trump era uh this podcast is filled with so much information I think is perent right now for you guys to hear this he answers a lot of questions that I had personally on the topic of immigration of border patrol here it is hope you enjoy it well Chief uh you know long time coming uh I’m I’m very honored to have you on the podcast you know we established this podcast years about a year ago now to give experts a platform to to state their case right to talk about you know their experti and for us to ask questions on it you’ve been in the game for a while you’ve been very public about your opinion you know what happens on the border the administration and everything happens currently and you know I felt I’ve been wanting to get you on here and it’s perfect time to get you on now perfect I’m uh I’m excited to be here see so if you don’t mind for the audience we give no you’re good if you don’t mind for the audience give it a quick kind of bio of your background sure so obviously Rodney Scott um a lot of people think of me as the retired chief of Us Port Patrol I was the chief under the Trump Administration and then the first seven on to the Biden Administration but I like to highlight I’m actually border patrol agent I was a boorder patrol agent for about 30 years started out in San Diego uh in 1992 when the Border was completely kind of chaotic and then throughout my career just watched progress uh first it was Clinton stepped in and said hey this is insane we’ve got to do something to secure the Border make sure we know who and what’s coming into our home and then over my entire career my career primarily was Southern California and Southern Arizona and then DC of course um but basically just working day in and day out on how do we improve the border security of the United States and when I say border security I mean just simply what I stated a second ago our ability as a government to know and control who and what is inent in our national home it’s pretty much that simple well and for for those who out there listening why is that important why is it important in your own house seriously like I actually I I like to use that analogy a lot because of the Border it’s just so nebulous a lot of people have a hard time you know wrapping their head around border security policy and immigration policy and these different things so I like to highlight just that it’s exactly the same as your home just on a bigger level at your home you expect people and by the way this is pretty much globally you expect people to come to your established entry point usually your front door on a national level we have ports of Entry that by law those are our front door we have 328 of them and then literally apply a risk a threat Matrix if you will you don’t probably think about it the average American doesn’t think about it but you’re doing a risk assessment every single time somebody knocks on your door and you’re deciding do I let them in do I open the door do I not well Customs and Border Protection officers and border patrol agents to a certain extent that’s their job but really that threat assessment is Customs and Border Protection officers jobs at the ports of Entry but unlike you or you just get to make it up Congress gave them rules regulations and laws that they just have to enforce about who and what comes into our home and it’s very very important again backing up just like your home if you can’t control who and what enters your home who has Let’s Get Down In The Weeds who has access to your daughter’s bedroom or your son’s bedroom or your bedroom you have no safety or security and there’s nothing racist or xenophobic about that so you expect people to come to the front door anybody sneaks into your house any other way it’s going to normally elicit a response if you live in a city maybe that’s calling 911 if you live in a more rural area you’re going to probably take care of yourself so on a national level that is United States border Patrol’s job again overly simplifying it it’s simply to make sure US border Patrol’s job is to make sure that everybody and everything coming and going from our country goes through those front doors the 328 ports of Entry we really don’t care how fat you are what color your hair you have that day or how many piercings you have if you cross the border outside of a legal Port of Entry it’s border Patrol’s job to identify you stop you from doing that and then depending on what crimes are associated immigration narcotics whatever else put you in the right box um and again maybe I’m overly simplifying it but that seems to to resonate with most people they’re like oh yeah I would freak out if somebody was coming into our my house somewhere other than the front door same thing on a national level and then just cuz I’m on this tangent if you will I like to remind people don’t get into the Weeds on these issues at least not right at first when you get sucked into a discussion about immigration policy or legalization of certain narcotics or anything else those conversations are fine however they’re predicated on an ability to enforce it so border security always has to come first border security again is the ability to detect to know who and what is enter in the country and then to basically stop anything that’s that’s f the law without that ability any conversation about is and isn’t legal is kind of a waste of oxygen does that make sense yeah no I love that during your time as an agent have you seen you know after so I grew up in in the LA area when I saw you know the the September 11th uh issue that happened you know when that happened I saw the whole change of the security of this country right I entered the military to defend the country I was doing things overseas in hopes to dismantle some kind of terrorist organization that was potentially a future threat to America and then I came and joined the border patrol in 2009 and in my time I saw only one president was in the space of that I remember was the Obama Administration and what I had to deal with in the sense of dealing with deportations or helping with with with with you know any kind of situation there most people were getting arrested at the time because we had operation streamline was happening during the Del Rio sector area during your time you saw several presidents yeah and in that which president did you see that was starting to make big impacts on immigration so to be quite honest um all of them except for one and and I’ll talk through that because I I thank you for bringing this up because border security shouldn’t be political but as I mentioned before I got in in 1992 immigration and in the context most people talked about and even as the agents saw it back then it really was Western Hemisphere primarily Mexicans and South people from South America coming up to work and get jobs but it was chaotic it was literally destroying the Border meaning the Border communities like even tiwan on the south side it was just it was like a huge massive transient area and then all the problems that come with that so it was actually Bill Clinton a a Democrat was the first one to step up and there’s tons of of video out there people can go still watch it and he said enough is enough we we have to control this even to just preserve our legal immigration system we have to be able to stop this this massive flow of illegal immigration so under Bill Clinton We initiated operation gatekeeper operation Hold the Line those were named operations but I like to tell people basically a second line supervisor just kind of a dumbing it down for us as young agents out in the field put at best he goes you know what really we’re trying to just clean up this clutter slow down the flow clean up the Clutter so we can focus on and find the real threats cuz right now it’s just chaos that stuck with me and I would challenge anybody we’ve changed the terminology man DC and I even got sucked into it right DC loves buzzword Bingo and naming things and changing terms but that strategy that was imp implemented in the late 93 going into 1994 that literally said let’s find ways to slow down and deter illegal immigration before it happens so that when something does cross the border we’re not overwhelmed we can actually respond effectively and then and then keep America safe we have literally maintained that deterrent strategy for 27 years until January 21st 2021 it didn’t matter if it was Clinton Bush Obama Bush trump it didn’t matter right all of them actually uh supported that deterrent strategy at different levels and they focus on different parts but every single day in my career until January 21st 2021 the Border was getting more and more secure we would have spikes in illegal activity but we responded to them anytime there was a loophole we had work groups put together to figure out how to close that loophole all all focused on just making sure on behalf of America that we knew who and what was coming into the country and we included it unfortunately the current Administration and again this isn’t political it’s just factual they campaigned on it I’m not saying anything that’s a secret um the they were very adamant they were going to stop the deterrent strategy they were going to shut down physical deterrence and policy deterrence and then focus on speeding up the processing of people once they came into the United States and then as quickly as possible adjudicate their claims or their case if you will um and then if their order deported in theory they would they would be deported um we i w even get into that political aspect because the first part is just factual it doesn’t matter who’s in the administration they said that outright we warned them I personally warned them over and over again that literally there’s just too many people in the world that want to come here it’s going to overwhelm us we’re not going to be able to control the border at all and that would effectively give the cartels control about to decide who and what enters the country instead of us um but as you can see over the last three and a half years they didn’t listen and uh and they went completely the other direction again I I argue the immigration we talk about it a lot but the real threat right now is that the US border patrol because of these massive numbers can’t tell you with any level of confidence who and what is coming into the country um you you know this but a lot of the viewers or listeners probably don’t it’s all about the second wave so literally the cartel stage illegal aliens and then they push them across the border to overwhelm whatever law enforcement they think is in the area yeah they make money off of that but the reason they’re really doing it is because people pay extra to not be fingerprinted they pay extra to not interact with law enforcement and then of course all the narcotics that aren’t replaceable that is all in the second wave so they hold that back until they think the law enforcement is distracted and they push it push across that second wave that second wave over the last three and a half years has pretty much made it without exception as you know we’ve documented we the US border patrols documented and reported out almost two million known Goda ways but there’s a lot of borders you know we don’t have any surveillance or technology out there so if there’s not an agent patrolling it we have no idea what’s out there so looping back to the question you asked without and again I’m not I’m not playing favorites here this is just factual without any kind of hesitation at all the president that actually put our uh strategy on steroids and probably did more faster than any other president was clearly president trump it was it was one of his top pet peeve issues um but I would say it was because he listened to us and we explained to him how the cartel was used in illegal immigration this is early early on 2016 is um the union interact with him explained to him how the cartel was used illegal immigration to basically completely annihilate border security and this is the other thing people don’t think about we’re also talking about nation state threats and terrorism not just you know economic migrants I couldn’t tell you actually I think I have a number um 73 73,000 over 73,000 Chinese poured across the the Border this last year 733,000 thousand and they’re primarily single adults I think over I think um 60 plus thousand of that was single adults primarily males that is a nation state adversary you don’t leave China in those massive numbers and come here without the government’s approval there’s a lot of people from Iran Russia I could go through all these numbers but these are the Border Patrol’s job you know we never talk about that aspect of it but it’s just to detect and stop anything and everybody coming in um you touched on the terrorism I’m sorry I’m rambling but my first first part of my entire career like every other agent it was illegal immigration primarily I thought about like migrant workers whatever economic migration and narcotics it really wasn’t until 911 that we started talking about like I don’t remember anybody ever talking about terrorism before that but I got yanked out of the field um I was a second line supervisor back it was an fos now it would be a Watch Commander in nog Galis Arizona uh C CBP gets created um we’re giving a briefing to a new commissioner and then I kind of went off script and mouthed off a little bit I actually thought I was probably going to get fired or demoted um and then shortly thereafter I was getting asked to go to DC work on a couple policy issues and then set up cbp’s office of antiterrorism so from 2003 to about 2008 uh I spent a vast majority of my time working with three-letter agencies working with DOD sounds like you were probably in theater working with people that were in theater to make sure any any information over there that was relevant to border security actually got into our systems agents wouldn’t necessarily know where that information came from or what it was but they’d get a flag right they fingerprinted somebody and all of a sudden it popped up you know hold that guy for for somebody else to come talk to them those were all the things I was working on behind the scenes and to be honest I was pissed I was like why why have no one told us about any of this information before once I was looking at highs side Intel Intel that existed before 911 about threats coming across the border and areas I had specifically worked and I’m like are you kidding me no one thought to share this with US border patrol before so that’s always also in the back of my mind that it’s not just what you see on TV you know we worked for years the threat for 911 or actually 9911 itself was a vulnerability at Port entry but we knew that as we shut down those ports of entry and made it harder and harder for people to come through a Port of Entry to commit acts of terrorism or or threaten the country where would they go next they would go in between the ports so we spent we spent millions of dollars basically training building out training for our Intel agents and for our interview agents on jttfs but to detect uh deception to elicit responses we work at three other agencies anyway because we were focus focused on what we were focused on slowing down the flow so agents could spend more time actually interviewing the people that they caught and that we could figure out who the real threats are all that went away January 21st 2021 again not political but it just went away uh I I’ve talked to several of the guys there’s no time right now because of the massive flow to do any of those intelligence Debs at all it’s insane hey guys it’s your boy Rocco I wanted to share with you guys a new fitness app that I’ve been using called Mountain tough if you’re serious about pushing your limits and building your mental toughness you got to go check out Mountain tough this isn’t your average fitness app it’s built for those who never back down from a challenge Mountain tff started by training Backcountry hunters for multi-day high elevation rugged terrain and the ability to pack an elk in mountains the training translated so well to the Tactical application that many Special Operations military First Responders and Law Enforcement Officers use the app today you can see on their YouTube channel that they’ve been sharing their knowledge and training with guys like the 75th range of regimen which I was also a part of this app allows you to train wherever you are with minimal equipment requirements so whether you’re in the gym Outdoors at home you can access top tier workouts that fit your goals and lifestyle in other words you have no excuse I have gone through my phases of my workouts trying to get big trying to get better trying to get faster trying to get this and currently this is the app I’m using I want to be more functional in in the field while out there with the border patrol filming what happens day in and day out on the borders download Mountain tff app today and use the promo code Borderland to get a 14-day free trial and one month free that’s 6 weeks of mountain tff at no cost go get them one thing is kind of crazy is that when I was in country I did Afghanistan twice and Iraq once and Iraq was probably the biggest one for us as in gathering Intel and we had several agencies with us as we killed or captured higher value targets right and that’s where I first learned that there’s a potential why we’re Gathering some of this information is the potential for them uh information of using the southern border to come into the country that’s the first time I heard of it and somebody introduced me the idea of border patrol and bortac and that’s why eventually when I got out my my mission was to get into the Special Operations teams and work that angle uh for the same idea a of protecting our country on our own soil now doing the same Mission I was doing overseas essentially and so I was taught that in 2005 that that was a threat to to to America and that’s why it became a very interesting mission for me well 100% and and it’s just as big if not a bigger threat today than ever before but yet we don’t ever talk about it um and again I I hate to go political but I was I spent most of my career in Southern California so I was used to talking to people people that didn’t really support border security were more open border and when I would sit down and have conversations with them and take them to the border and walk them around almost not 100% but almost without exception they’d be like oh this is more complicated than I thought they would go back and they would start working with us and and it it started a fairly good conversation so I was pretty confident as Chief when the Biden Administration came in that all the rhetoric was just campaign rhetoric that once they came in matter of fact I remember telling the staff because a lot of people are in BO are kind of freaking out um don’t worry about it everybody everybody campaigns and they say all this crazy stuff as soon as they come in we give them the briefings they see the highight Intel you know they they they look at our strategy what we’re really doing and they realize this is not some Nazi organization this is just common sense making sure we know who and what enters our country if they want to change who and what enters they can change anytime they want they just go to Congress everything will be okay man I was naive I honestly like I never never fathomed the thought that they would not want to hear a word we had to say that they would shut down all of our expert uh work groups if you will that had Agents from the field that had leadership it had people from Ice um working on all these issues they basically sent all the career guy’s home and replaced him with political appointees that had had an opinion how they wanted the world to be and they had no intention to listen to anything we had to say about how it really was um but but the reason I bring all that up is what you just just said almost overnight we were banned cuz when you’re still an employee and you know this um different different administrations have different levels of control of what you can and can’t say they’ll give you talking points or they’ll at least give you left and right boundaries um the Biden Administration put a complete gag order even on me as the chief on the entire organization um and basically said unless you have preapproved talking points you can’t talk and then when we submitted anything that had to do with terrorism threats criminal aliens narcotics and addition anything other than economic migrants crossing the border for a better life uh we were told no or we were ignored we weren’t allowed to talk about anymore that is still going on till today that’s why you don’t hear anything about all these other threats the career personnel aren’t allowed to talk about it so you were the chief when the bid Administration took over correct yep so and then if the trans if the administration changes again you’ll see it so there’s a transition period so I was the chief dur in the Trump Administration and the Biden but if a presidential Administration is changing from the time that the election is certified until the inauguration day A Team comes in and you’re supposed to brief them they call the transition team they ask a bunch of questions you brief them and the idea is hey you want no matter what who want who cares right you want the new president to be informed and to be able to make good decisions from day one so you’re kind of pre-briefing them as much as you can without going high side because they don’t have clearances and stuff until after they not inauguration and then right after the inauguration boom you know full speed you give them all the rest of the story um they didn’t want any of it the ad the the transition team we briefed them because they they don’t they don’t have really The Authority at that point to tell you to shut up so we briefed them and you could tell by the looks on their faces and their answers and stuff they didn’t like what we had to say they I think they thought we were blown out of proportion but then when they came in and on literally within 5 minutes of Biden being inaugurated the new chief of staff for CBP Lee clavell came in and basically put a gag order on us and told us here’s the new here’s the new rules you’re not allowed to speak anymore and then over the next six and a half almost seven months you know we were briefing her we were briefing the nominated commissioner Chris Magnus that’s another story we could do a two-hour podcast on that genius um anyway they just they didn’t they didn’t want to hear it but the here’s the fact whether it was me or whether it was other senior leadership within border patrol or CVP they were all briefed so everything that’s happened since then has been intentional it’s it’s intentional decisions that were made to to advance their world view some would call it a political agenda but it’s really their world view so when people think everything that happened over the last few years is just like you know accidental chaos that is not it at all those were informed decisions uh we explained to them exactly what would happened and they made the decisions anyway hey guys this is bear hanlin co-founder of born primitive and I just wanted to let you know about a big campaign we are doing to give back to Veterans this Veterans Day weekend a couple months ago we wrote a check to pay off $2.5 million of Veteran medical build debt and we need your help because we want to get that number to 5 million by Monday night which is Veterans Day so we will be pledging 100% of profits from our site bprc to accomplish that goal so with this Veterans Day campaign we also launched our brand new Freedom capsule which is two brand new colorways of our Savage one training shoe that pay homage to the American Revolution and the founding values of our Republic the first one is our Betsy Ross Edition it’s a classic red white and blue shoe that has the Betsy Ross flag as well as we the people on the inner heel we also have the don’t tread on me Edition this is a black and yellow design with the gadston snake on the inner heel for those that don’t know the gadston snake was flown in the first ever Naval battle one of the things that we did to bring this capsule to life was we created these limited number of mahogany wooden boxes that contain additional components that tie back to the American Revolution so we have our founding documents the Bill of Rights the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence we also have inlaid this is Oak from the USS Constitution which is our first ever Naval warship and of course the flint lock pistol which is symbolic of the Weaponry used at the time particularly early on in the naval battles uh in inlaid with that we have the uh Betsy Ross flag etched into the wood as well as the gadston snake etched into the wood uh overall just a beautiful piece uh that ties back to those founding values of our country on our site we have something for everyone we have Fitness apparel hunting apparel tactical jeans flannels you name it we have it so if this is a cause you want to get behind and you want to support veterans head toborn primitive.com November 8th through the 11th we will pledge every penny of profit in hopes of paying off $5 million of Veteran medical bill debt we hope you be a part of it thank you for joining the [Music] cause let’s go to the wall okay how did the wall become a political argument because during my time I was an eagle past and they were building a wall and no one cared about it they were building a wall that actually displaced people from their homes that their families own for Generations just to complete the wall but again there was no political argument about it so can you help me understand why that is sure so in total transparency though there was always political opposition to any type of Border infrastructure whether it be a wall off fence or anything else so again going clear back to the to the Clinton Administration that was the first time we really started building out any type of Border barrier again San Diego and El Paso primarily but that was the old Landing mat fence it was literally scrap metal we got from the military that we used to build a border wall president Trump I’m sorry President Bush comes around 911 happens the secure fence act blows that up so we start building significantly more border wall there were always people kind of kind of let’s let’s just I’ll just make it up let’s just say 95% support 5% don’t but it was a very loud five or 10% um in places like San Diego El Paso some other little pockets that were very anti- border wall operationally though it just makes sense and as I explained to Congress when I explained this to people in San Diego even on the on the far left that hated it at first this was a piece that they understood when I early in my career in San Diego pre-border wall we had three to five high-speed vehicle Pursuits every single day they would literally just blast across the border even with the with the rudimentary Landing mat fence that we put up in San Diego they would cut it at night and we would still get probably three to five high-speed Pursuits through San actually probably about 15 to 20 highs speeed Pursuits through San Diego every week when we build out the the the improved border wall system which is more than just a barrier it literally shut that off like literally it ended those high-speed Pursuits so if there’s no other metric whatsoever you just collapsed border security back to the border and you just kept everybody north of that line if you will safe from these highspeed Pursuits that were like during you know morning hours when kids are going to school and everything else but from a business perspective again going back to San Diego where we built out this concept just a short 14 mile section of border wall system allowed me to dramatically improve border security from like literally we had no idea what was going on to where we were well into the 90s of Effectiveness meaning we were catching over nine out of 10 people that illegally enter the United States we we basically just shut it down but more important than that we did it with 150 fewer agents in that 14 miles every 24 hours then before the Border infrastructure went in so that equates to a 20 en and a lot of numbers I’m sorry but that equated to a $28 million return on investment in simply in salaries and benefits of alone not even talking about the improved border security just in the savings of of salaries and benefits of Agents every single year for the life cycle of that border infrastructure so everybody gets tied up of who Mexico pay for the wall are we paying for I don’t really care who’s paying for the wall because the taxpayers are getting an amazing return on the investment from that wall system improved security less agents and we didn’t send those agents home we sent those agents up the coast of California they started knocking down boats left and right we put them on task forces to look for terrorism joint terrorism task force tunnel task force and we shifted them over to Arizona and Texas where they either didn’t have wall or it wasn’t wasn’t feasible at the time um or or it just wasn’t there yet right but my point is they became more effective so it doesn’t really matter how you look at it unless your intent is to let people just flow across into the United States at will there’s really nothing negative about the border wall some environmentalists talk about migration patterns of animals and everything else you know when you actually build significant sections of border wall the system if you will we can we can build in easily Wildlife corridors and everything else and then you just only got an agent or two and some technology watching those because you know it’s a known vulnerability and they can’t we I say I use the term Juke you they can’t run a group to your right and then run the road group to the left because you’ve made it so much much harder it really wasn’t until the Trump Administration when Trump said hey this really works and again he didn’t think this up on himself by himself he asked border patrol agents and he had all that info all that data he said yep we’re going to build out a border wall makes sense because it’s a great return on investment for the American taxpayer I won’t get into the Mexico paying for it thing and then all of a sudden it became political overnight that’s the problem and people that supported it before all of a sudden hated it for they couldn’t tell you why they just did I tried to explain it to people in in again not political in the sense of like I’ve used the wall to my advantage as an agent working in area that’s very desolate and hard to manage and you use it as a force multiplier it actually did help and areas to to funnel traffic in areas that we can manage easier and when you explain that to people they don’t understand the functionality of it as it helps insecurity they more thought of it as just a political posturing and it’s like no whatever Trump said about it it’s IR relevant in my head for me as an agent it meant so much more and also knowing that it was before Trump that we started putting walls up for some reason that’s Lo the history of the wall build is lost on people so then just use it as a trump era kind of idea but it no this is a border security history like you said they’ve been building this more fortified walls to help benefit us securing our borders and for some reason that’s lost in the conversation that’s why I asked no I agree 100% but here’s a couple things and again I’ll I’m G to get a little I don’t mean to be political again this is just factual it’s started to get a little bit more political during the Obama administration because over my career the Obama Administration was the first Administration that really put the Reign about public affairs and Public Communication on the US Bard Patrol so there’s always agents agent I’ve gotten arguments about with agents actually about this agents would tell you that we’ve always been restricted we can’t talk well I get that but not leadership so and it’s all about consistency it’s not about you know trying to hide anything but throughout my entire career the sector Chiefs or the chief of the border patrol were the ones you know hey this is our strategy this is this is where we’re going here’s our talking points but the Obama Administration locked that down so honestly if you look back and think think this through the media and you can actually ask any journalist that’s been around for a while I’ve had this conversation with tons of them the journalist started going to the border patrol Union during the Obama administration because senior leadership in the border patrol wasn’t allowed to talk so fast forward that that’s honestly during the when Trump ran he got most of his information from the border patrol Union not from border patrol leadership a few other people talked to him probably but operationally it’s the same information it’s irrelevant it was extremely competent information about how the wall helps the agents out in the field it just it’s common sense right and then he supported it and then the Trump administration’s guidance to us and I think we were actually finally winning people over and bringing them around was just go tell America what’s going on I didn’t I wasn’t restricted from talking to the media at all I actually did a monthly news conference when we rolled out the end of the month stats every time we would stand in a conference room in the Reagan Building in DC and just answer questions until the reporters were done asking and a lot of Skeptics when we had this type of a conversation and I would explain no no no no we started the border wall meaningfully under Clinton and this is what it did for us oh yeah we got rid of that Landing mat because we realized people could hide behind it and then just hit us with a barrage of rocks you know we went to the Ballard for officer safety when you start and explain the evolution of the border wall system and how we were perfecting it constantly and honestly and you use some analogies like hey have you ever been to a county fair or a concert or a sporting event what’s the first thing they do or DC what’s the first thing they do when when they control access they put up fences so that the security guards if you will or the cops are more effective and then they set up checkpoints and gates for people to come and go there’s nothing about this that should be political but man the minute there’s just that Trump derangement thing you know the minute that Trump pushed it and supported it and again I’m not saying I’m a big fan of all the rhetoric you know it’s all true but it is also true that there are legitimate Asylum Seekers and everything else you know my thing is let’s get back to the basics do you want to know who and what is in in our home or not because if you don’t just get rid of CBP border patrol and everybody else cuz you’re wasting a lot of money taxpayer money baking that we want to know and control who and what comes into our country but if you really want to know and you care about your tax dollars being spent wisely the first thing you want to do is make like I like the term you use the force multiplier you use tools that make every agent more effective because the agents cost you money every single day they’re working every minute they’re working the infrastructure is one investment uh for for a lot longer amount of time and it’s just it’s Common Sense let me ask you about the kids and cages that that time yeah so why did we I don’t I still as much as I understand it it’s still confusing so please go sure so let’s back up first off there’s no such thing as kids in cages um right there so I want the your listeners that don’t understand the Border environment to think about this the United States border patrol comes in contact with a large number of kids I mean it’s not it’s not the overwhelming but right is a large number some are unaccompanied some are with their families but I want you to think about what did you just see in your mind when I said unaccompanied kids so that’s probably what you saw we border patrol interacts with kids that literally from all these different countries that would literally be just like the kid down the street 13 12 let’s just say 12 or 13 year old but at the exact same time the United States border patrol also encounters unaccompanied kids unaccompanied juveniles there are 12 or 13 the exact same age that have been in a gang since they were like eight we actually arrested some people in San Diego once that their job for the cartel I’m just hate to get gruesome but this is a fact was to cut up bodies and put the pieces and barrels of acid to make them disappear and they’ve been doing that for years and they’re gang members they haven’t really been living at home and then now they’re the same age so by us standards they’re just an unaccompanied kid but we don’t know who’s who yet oh by the way and then there’s all the different nationalities and gang factions so you may have a gang a kid from a gang that fights with another gang whatever but we don’t know any of that it’s we’re triaging at the border because when they cross we’re just taking them to a station putting them together we need time to to to sort that out so the chain link fence when we looked at it was the most again coste effective tool we had to partition pull off from each other especially during that triage and a big part of it was because not only could we see what was going on so if anything happened you know two or three agents could be watching a lot of people but you could also hear it because think about it what do kids do all the time when they’re trying to hide something from adults two or three kids will make a wall something will be going on behind the wall the human little wall and you may not be able to see it with the naked eye but if in those environments where we had the chain link fencing which is around every playground in the United States it’s around sporting events Fairgrounds you name it there’s nothing inherently bad about chaining fencing we use that to partition them off and keep the boys away from the girls and then once we identified that hey these gangs are going to clash we could separate them out or whatever else but my point is you have to separate them somehow that’s just the right thing to do and then you want to keep them as safe as possible today because a guy named Jacob sober off from NBC coined the phrase kids in cages and and I won’t get into all this I could do another story on that whole thing cuz very very misleading journalism very intentionally by the way because he’s kind of an activist um he he he knew why we were doing what we were doing and then when he started reporting it out kind of left out some key pieces on p on purpose and then it blew up into this kids cage story but now we use vinyl like plastic clear vinyl sheeting like quarter inch thick to to create these uh basically cells if you will or short-term detention space but you can’t hear as well so because of people’s overreaction to something they don’t even understand they’ve actually made the kids less safe we have cameras and we do everything we try to in there but you have to take the kid in custody that’s just and I think the average American doesn’t understand that but what would you want us to do just leave them out on the street they’re a kid right or a family or whatever once you take them into custody you have to maintain their safety but I would argue that they’re less safe today because we can’t NE the agents can’t really hear what’s going on nearly as well as we could before we overreacted to a political not a real operational issue a political issue and then if you’re talking about the next phase about uh Zero Tolerance one of the deterr is for crime in the United States is that you get prosecuted and then so we we Prosecuting people for crossing the border illegally when you get a DUI as a Joe Blow American or you get committ a crime and you get arrested you go through the judicial system on your own by yourself we don’t force your family to be drugged through the judicial system or go to jail with you or anything else so when we started Prosecuting more people for entering the country illegally their families did not have to go to jail with them either so some people on the far left call that family separation and they made this big deal about the fact that the kids weren’t side by side with the parents as they were going through their their legal process CES and then obviously that that exploded and we overreacted to that as well what’s going on everybody I want to let you know about an ongoing effort in Western North Carolina to help victims of hurricane Helen and how you can help our friends at the Sentinel Foundation the hurricane has displaced people around the region and destroyed countless homes however Sentinel is on the ground helping they’ve been actively getting critical supplies to Residents in some of the area’s most isolated locations they’ve been able to provide over 60 Starling systems to Fire Department depents police departments and churches so that they can communicate and coordinate for their communities they’ve also organized both aircraft and ground units to transport and deliver donations so far they’ve accepted an organized and estimated 7 million pounds of materials and distributed about 4 million pounds to support the ongoing relief efforts Sentinel has also continued to monitor reports of child trafficking exploitation within the area of operation through law enforcement find out more about their efforts to help hurricane victims and their anti-child exploitation efforts and to see how you can help please check out Foundation sentinel.com this piece plays out all the aspects that go unseen inside of the life of a team guy the life of a family member everything we do for the foundation we want it to do justice to the cuse and for the community so we want authenticity and we want it to make a difference so we hope you get that from this we’re so excited to launch it why does the border patrol hous them what where’s is there anything in our government that’s supposed to be housing migrants I’m why is it the board’s job now of doing that so they shouldn’t be housing them so the way first off it’s um the border patrol and Customs and Border Protection officers at the ports of Entry they’re the only federal law enforcement on the US side that doesn’t get to like um meter or pick and choose what crimes that that they see does that make sense so the reason border patrol ends up with all these people is because they cross the border and border patrol catches them or Customs and Border Protection catches them by law any unaccompanied minor is supposed to be transfer there just you processed quickly and then transferred okay I’m sorry let me back up there’s a differentiation uh any anybody from Mexico or Canada because there’s a contiguous border we can actually Deport them pretty quickly so any unaccompanied minor from any country other than Canada or Mexico that is in that is arrested by us bitol or Customs B protection they’re supposed to be processed as quickly as possible and then transferred to Health and Human Services office of refugee resettlement think of that as the federal level Child Protective Services uh for for migrants for aliens as quickly as possible no more absolute Max 72 hours but historically Health and Human Services has been underfunded so was border patrol um and they just haven’t picked up so literally they wouldn’t there would be kids stuck in Border Patrol cust this is what happened back in 2015 this is what happened a little bit um I think 2019 is um is literally a Health and Human Services basically just said yeah we don’t have enough space so we’ll we’ll come pick them up when we can but that doesn’t stop the next wave from Crossing border patrol still has to arrest still has to arrest still has to arrest so that’s why you wouldd see him backing up in border patrol stations that all came to a head in 2020 it was actually one of my pet peeves if you will that I didn’t believe border patrol should be stuck with him so we had a little bit of a clash uh I did as Chief with Health and Human Services um give you a little insight it basically it got a little ugly but we told them that hey I understand that you don’t have the capability to come pick all these kids up so we’re going to to bring them to you and start dropping them off in your office um anyway it went to the White House became a big issue got some attention and then finally HHS uh got some found some additional funding so you remember in 2019 it’s still Trump Administration going into the Biden Administration 2020 um they opened up like convention centers and uh community centers all across the country and had them packed with illegal alien kids that were came across by themselves really the the the peak of that hit during the B administration because within the first few weeks of the B Administration they made a decision to not send any unac company miners back and it was still title 42 but they basically went on TV and said any any kid that crosses the border is not going to be sent back well guess what the entire world sent their kids to America so it kind of blew up in our face um but you don’t see them backing up in Border Patrol custody as much anymore because Health and Human Services uh has really been forced uh to take custody of them now there’s a negative to this by the way Health and Human Services has put in a metric on how fast can they find a sponsor for the kid and then release him into the US and that’s why you hear about this 320 some thousand kids that are missing is because the as a state level Child Protective Services has a lot of followup home visits Mak sure everything’s good at a federal level none of that takes place by law all HHS has to do is find a sponsor finds somebody willing to take the kid that they think by whatever their criter is is a safe host and is willing to make sure the kid goes to their immigration hearings and then HHS releases them to that person and then basically Cuts ties so who lost the 300,000 Health and Human Services office of refugee resettlement and by the way let’s define lost because I and again total transparency I’m not trying to slam any part of the administration um it just means they can’t find them today they’re they’re not falling up on them but a lot of these this is a very sophisticated very intentional smuggling loophole so a lot of those kids were basically smuggled across or brought across knowing that an illegal alien parent or guardian or somebody else was going to come sponsor them and then they go hide it’s not like Anyway a lot of them that’s their entire intent as soon as they’re released into the United States that’s the goal they don’t really care about immigration status they just want to be released into the United States and then disappear because they don’t want to be deported unfortunately what that whole mechanism has also created is this huge vulnerability for for child trafficking because when you’re just releasing kids to these sponsors and you don’t know who they’re at or where they’re at um that I guarantee more kids have been trafficked under this or under this regime uh than ever before as well because chaos creates more chaos and criminals always take advantage of chaos how do you fix all this you just slow down the flow and make sure the border patrol agents do what they’re trained to do which is actually interview the kids interview the adults make sure they know who Who’s Who and then you reinstitute vetting at the hhsl side before they go to a sponsor this Administration banned ice from engaging in that process because they don’t want illegal alien parents to be afraid to come pick up their illegal alien kid and face deportation just put that back in place let ice do the investigations like they like they need to and like they should um and then we’ll make sure that kids are actually going to their real parents and then if they need to be deported that they’re actually deported I’m sorry but that’s the law if we don’t like it we should just change the law yeah I got really frustrated watching everything that happened with media and how they were demonizing the bardol career field uh it was frustrating because someone who actually done the job was like wait a minute it’s not like that you’re making us look bad and that’s not fair and so that’s why I went and wrote the book I I contacted you I contacted several other Chiefs just like like what can I say here um how does the polarization of immigration debate affect morale and operational decisions in the border patrol so it’s really tanked the morale and again I wouldn’t say go going back full full circle I want to make sure everybody understands immigration policy and border security are totally different border security is simply knowing who and what enters immigration policy is the legal aspect that says who and what is or who is is allowed to enter and stay but here’s the catch bad immigration policy that results in people being released or even believing that they’re going to be released into the United States creates an overwhelming pull for so much illegal immigration that it will always destroy our ability to secure the border so bad policy completely destroys the Border good policy makes border security a lot easier because it slows down the flow just hold people accountable but they they’re they’re very interrelated but but they’re different what’s going on right now is such horrific immigration policy that it’s literally prevented border patrol Agents from doing their job so again their job isn’t to process illegal aliens their job is to secure America by knowing who and what enters but that two million gotway I I think is the best example those are known so that means border patrol agents either saw on camera saw in real per like real life or saw the footprints or whatever else all these groups of people crossing the border illegally and they got away and the Agents know the only reason they got away is because they’re stuck processing these fraudulent about 86% of fraudulent Asylum claims that they’re basically you know taking advantage of these loopholes and they see it every day over and over and over again and then some of the conversations I’ve had with people border patrol not quite as bad but it’s a little bit like military right that you miss a lot of family events you miss birthdays you miss soccer games whatever but you’re always able to tell your family hey I’m protecting America it’s a greater good I know this sucks I’ll make it up to you later but I’m going to make sure I leave you a good country great place to live but they lost that because agents feel like now especially when they’re literally processing people and then releasing the vast majority of them into the United States they literally feel like they’re part of the smuggling Network now at the absolute least they know that they’re dramatically reducing the overhead for the cartels and for the Smugglers and it’s extremely demoralizing how does it affect day in and day out decisions I think the agents still do the best that they possibly can they want to stop crime they want to go out and actually arrest the criminal element and everything else but they’re just that that that conflict of what’s right in your face versus what you know is right over the next Ridge um is very man it’s just it stresses them out beyond belief I talked to a lot of leadership in the same exact boat because at the end of the day we’re part of the executive branch though so they have to actually follow orders and follow the guidance issue that’s legal that’s that’s issued by the administration and unfortunately there are competing immigration laws that that uh this Administration is basically told them focus on processing um they didn’t tell them to not interdict people they just told him to process them and release them which is almost the same thing just it’s it’s devastating the morale though yeah it’s it’s an interesting time to watch watch everything which strategies do you believe are necessary to balance border security human and the humanitarian needs so so let me let me touch the humanitarian thing and people don’t like it when I say this but this is just fact United States border patrol does not have a humanitarian Mission they have humanitarian responsibilities as Americans but in the federal government to have a mission it has to be assigned to you by Congress and funded the United States border patrol does no where in the law there’s nowhere in the Appropriations that they are given that they are assigned a humanitarian Mission so what does that mean it means when you come across somebody in need yeah you got to help and everything else but our job our strategy really the most Humane thing to do is secure the border so that people don’t subject themselves to the cartel they don’t actually try crossing the real ground River at 2:00 in the morning because that’s when the cartel wants them to cross so that they can bring in a second wave you simply do this you make it harder to cross and then you just simply make sure that there’s actually consequences for committee to Crime so I’ll use the remain in Mexico program for an example so it was actually called the migrant protection protocols but basically anybody that crossed the border that came through Mexico with certain caveats but for the most part most of them if they wanted to claim asylum in the United States we said yep you get to make that claim however your court case whenever it is is you know 6 months from now two years from now whatever you need to wait outside the country and tell a judge judicat your case and then if the judge say we’ll even pick you up the Border give you a free right to court but if the judge says you can stay you can stay the judge says you got to go you got to go because 86% of those claims were fraudulent the flow stopped literally like they stopped coming and the numbers dropped dramatically that let agents spread themselves out more and actually slow down so the most humanitarian thing you can ever do to save and help the most people is to actually secure the border so that people aren’t enticed into that chaotic very very dangerous situation in the first place um and then by the way the secondary effect of that is now all of a sudden our legal immigration system would be working again because you wouldn’t have millions of people cutting the line constantly and then we could actually get help to the people that needed it the most whether it was through Asylum the refugee program or whatever else but right now this chaos is completely destroying both the border security and our legal immigration system there’s just nothing good coming out of it at all what lessons from your time as chief of the US border patrol do you think are most relevant in today’s border crisis listen to the agents so early in my career and I’ll get to some policy things but early in my career a chief is an after hours conversation and we’re getting some conflicting information and by the way agents don’t especially the union don’t don’t overread into this but basically he told me he goes hey if you’re ever getting conflicting information from a few people in the board Patrol you trust them all just look at their callar and go with a guy that has nothing or the least amount of Insignia because he has nothing there’s no ulterior motive other than to protect the country he just wants to do his job so that’s literally if I go back in the Trump Administration especially why why did he support border wall infrastructure why did he support some of these different programs to include the migrant protection protocols and these other programs it wasn’t because he had Epiphany and just thought him up it’s because he sought out advice the advice made sense he challenged some of it I got into a couple pretty good debates with him almost felt like an argument um but once he had new information and this is the thing once you get that new information from trusted sources you go with it so really listen to the agents listen to The Experts out in the field not the political pundit not the congressman the senators or or the political appointees listen to people that really did the job and then let’s go back to common sense if the first thing that most homeowners do if they want to control their property is put up a fence around their property why does it not make sense for us to do that on a national level if you at your home and everybody everywhere else the very first step you do when you want to enhance Security is to make sure that you can control who comes and goes whether it be the lock on your front door or ring doorbell camera or whatever else these are basic Common Sense principles that really shouldn’t be that controversial and then once you slow down that flow then the bital ages you know they can get out and it it sidebar tangent but you can look at the statistics anytime illegal immigration spikes drug seizures as a percentage of activity for the United States border patrol tanks it drops dramatically because the agents aren’t out sacking up the dope us the criminal element is the same thing the Crim criminal element is smart enough to stay in that second wave so when Mass illegal incursions cross the percentage of the total population that’s the criminals actually usually drops it’s not because they’re not there it’s because they’re smart enough to get away just having those common sense I think conversations if you will um listen to the agents look at history what’s worked before and just understand that it’s not racist xenophobic or anything else to want to know and control who and what iners your home and we’re 80% there cuz the agents if you just take the reins off the agents want to do the job no one watches all those like you even no one watches bortac you know commercials or sees what they do or sees agents out in these very rugged remote areas um and then signs up for this job if they don’t actually want to control they don’t actually want to secure the country so let them do it last question um the magic button how do you fix it what would you you do if you had the if you had to what are the the the the things that you would implemented to help fix this situation so pretty much the same thing we just talked about first and foremost you gotta you got to re-energize the agents and you got to let the a you have to empower the agents to prioritize their activity for real the based on the highest threats if you have groups of people standing along the boorder that they’re angry that they’re hot or whatever but they’re not moving and you know that that’s for the cartel to move something else to your left or right go get what’s left or right and then that actually start we do debrief everything else but basically empower the agents to make those decisions again in the field to go after the highest risk highest threats first and not just go be you know deliver water and everything else and then reimplement what we know works and again not because Trump did it but because for 27 years we were perfecting the border wall system you need a barrier to make the agents more effective we could we could bankrupt the country hiring enough border patrol agents to literally secure the border with human beings only so let’s go back to what works that border wall system by the way also included technology we can get into that in another podcast sometime but you do that but even all that together without consequences it’s a waste of time there has to be consequences for illegally crossing the border we have to prosecute people for entering the country illegally and we have to make sure we end Catch and Release and we showed with the migrant protection protocols and some of the Asylum Cooperative agreements we were putting in place in the last Administration we can apply consequences while ensuring that people get due process and they still get their case heard by a judge so we’re maintaining American values we’re making sure that people that have a claim get it heard or that that that want to come here that the judge hears their case but we do it in a way that doesn’t give them the prize before the judge makes a decision right and then the minute that people know there’s accountability vast the vast majority which is fraudulent they it goes away because they literally know they can’t get away with it and now the agents become more effective and in the last three and a half years we’ve seen this very negative domino effect but in the prior years we saw a very positive domino effect when agents have more time to actually interview people they discover child trafficking because all of a sudden they pick up on clues that this kid is not comfortable with this person when agents have more time to do interviews they start talking to the aliens and they start documenting the cartel the members how they operate where they operate what kind of vehicles their phones we share that with the other investigative agencies and we systematically started dismantling factions of the cartel and making it hurt big time uh in the pocketbook taking away their ability to make money and then every time you do that the cartels have to move to another area when you shut down an area what do gangs do when you move into their area they fight internally well that exposes them more and then both the Mexicans and us can go in again and start taking out and you see these positive dominoes start falling that make the Border more secure that bring the criminal element Out of the Shadows so that we can actually arrest them and do something to them and then every American is safer it’s not rocket science thank you for listening to Borderland and Ironclad original see you guys next week [Music] [Music] so we’re so excited to launch this new piece for the Navy SEAL Foundation we’re titling it I am and the reason why we came up with that title is because we wanted to show who the warrior is if you know the seal ethos it says I am that Warrior and so we want to show that Warrior through the progression of his life and his family and we want to draw parallels and call us all to action to be that Warrior that man that woman that child that person making a difference in our community to follow in the footsteps of these men and women that show us how to live in the nsw community we’re filming at Camp Pendleton here in Virginia Beach it’s a big deal because it is a government installation and because it mirrors so many of the things that so many servicemen and women go through orp here ISO here containment here and primary entry point here this piece plays out all the aspects that go unseen inside of the life of a team guy the life of a family member it takes a journey from buds all the way into full-fledged dad operator mode and all the things that happen it’s very powerful at times it’s very hard- hitting at [Music] times another really special aspect about this project is it features a Ray Charles song America the Beautiful the the reason why we selected that song is like we were talking about man what do people not recognize you know the repeated explosions the repeated deployments back and forth coming home after you just lost your buddy and then seeing your kids that are excited to see you tucking them in right after that still training still learning you growing all of these things and as we were playing out this storyboard in our head we just kept hearing that song and uh we reached out to the Ray Charles foundation and for the Navy SEAL Foundation they made it happen so it’s a very rare song that’s being used it’s really great piece for it to be used on everything we do for the foundation we want it to do justice to the cause and for the community so we want authenticity and we want it to make a difference so we hope you get that from this we’re so excited to launch it
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