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a huge economy growing that was paying down the debt with a with a lean tough deterrent defense policy it would just change everything B China and and did you see this world climate is in aeran where they I guess our representative is John podesta we’re supposed to give all of these developing countries you know under the European Biden Administration uh blood money that we polluted the planet and heated it up so they’re making these claims for trillions of dollars of transfers you didn’t say blood money because it was John podesta did you you know his affinity for blood but I was thinking about that I mean Trump said no last time and he will stop it right but it it’s so simplistic you guys have more pollution all during the last century and you you would say to them then well then send us a bill we’re going to send you a bill for cell phone and cars and engines because your country had none of that and somebody had to produce it and we produced it and when we gave it to you you bought it from us but the people who are producing it obviously have to use more energy so if you want us to give you money why don’t you just say we don’t want any of your products because they’re polluting and he’s going to stop that he’s going to get back out of the climate Accord again and he’s not going to let China Shake us down he’s going to have have better relations with India he’s going to break up this Russia India China axis that was a result of this non-indian Ukraine war I think it’s going to be if he can do all of this this this country will actually be United because the middle class’s wages which stagnated for 12 years under Obama the last years of bush until 2017 and then they stagnated again under Biden if they if they continue to increase you’ll have a United uh powerful country again and Victor it sounds like it’ll be unst it’ll be unstoppable yeah it sounds like you’re making the case for Trump which sounds like a book title which maybe we should talk about I think I’m going to write another book I just thought I’ll call it return uh rebound Resurrection the return of Don the survival The Rebirth of the survival of Donald Trump the return of Donald Trump in the magga agenda well let we’ll see let’s let’s get I’m confident is that there are a lot of landmines waiting for Donald Trump and they’re they’re going to be the next generation of comies and muers and uh Adam schiffs and uh latita James Jack Smith they’re all buried there waiting for Trump but this time it’s different he knows they’re there and he knows they’re going to go off and he knows what they’re going to do last time contrary to the vilification that he was vengeful or he’s mean or he wasn’t he didn’t weaponize anything not that he’s going to weaponize it now but he knows what he has to do and he knows who’s going to try to destroy him and that’s why these picks are so different than the first Administration yeah well let’s let’s talk about the case for Trump um when we come back from these important messages [Music] [Music] we are back with the Victor Davis Hansen show Victor and I are recording on the 23rd of November which is a Saturday but this episode is up on the 28th Happy Thanksgiving to all Victor uh just take you know we’ve never I’ve never I should have done this right after the election I think you deserved a chance to take a Victory lap not the you’re Victory lapper but uh you you know the case for Trump is a um is an important book was an important book I think remains an important book anything you want to say about it in hindsight of the election uh well I have a 20,000 word update for the new paperback but when I wrote that uh I was asked to write it and I submitted the the title how Trump won my editors convinced me the case for Trump I thought well that’ll sound like I’m a partisan and F itic when it’s it was really a disinterested view about why he won and why and how he won and why uh his administration would be successful and one of the things that I I pointed the theme of the case for Trump was he was a tragic hero that we had become so deadlocked and so lethargic and so overwhelmed with the conventionality that you needed a disruptor but the problem with disruptors are whether and I I looked at the of Sophocles Ajax FES edus antigon and then I looked at the John Ford movies uh especially Ethan Edwards as you mentioned the other day in the Searchers and I also talked about the genre in general whether it was George Stevens Shane or sturgis’s Magnificent Seven there was a theme that the disruptor comes in and he has a set of skills that solve the problem but when he solves the problem then people have the luxury of saying oh he tweeted too much oh he’s too he’s he’s and then he doesn’t end up well and that sort of was what I said the Trump administrate that he would have a stellar record but they would demonize him and he wouldn’t end up well and that happened after January 6th but right this is what I really admire him 9 99.9% including Victor Davis Hansen that would be the first person could not do what he did had I gone through uh if I was impeached twice and put on trial as a private citizen and I had some of my closest Associates calling me a traitor an insurrectionist and then I went out into the political Wilderness and the FBI came out here and raided my home armed and then the next thing I knew uh the full powers of the US government the doj the CIA the fep they were all against me and I had a crazy woman egene Carol going after me to bankrupt me and make me pay $73 million for an incident that came right out of a TV plot that she copied or I had Jack Smith who had a pathological hatred of me and was going to prosecute me for what Joe Biden was considered exempt from and then he was going to call this buffoonish Riot and insurrections by which in which I said assemble peacefully and patriotically quite differently than Cala Harris who was canonized even though she said in the midst of rioting and violence and death this won’t stop this shouldn’t stop this is a movement this is going and when I had all that asymmetry and then and then I had this crazy nut uh Fanny Willis and her boyfriend Nathan about a phone call find me 10,000 find the 10,000 votes and suddenly I’m a criminal if I had all of that and then I was going to run again and I have to go through a primary and then they take my name off the ballot and say I got to fight that and then somebody I just turned my head just a millisecond and just a 2 Ines or I would have had my head blown off and in the next seconds I put my hand up fight fight fight and then just a few weeks later there’s somebody waiting at the next hole to shoot me and it just a fluke that somebody happened to see him and then when all this is happening I start to study the Secret Service and I see the laxity and the incompetence was such among the Secret Service that I’m in real danger I don’t know I I could there’s no way I could do that right and when he does that I and then when I here my reaction to all of this is then when I hear RFK he’s going to get RFK I thought you know RFK wow I remember RFK said this and this and that tulsy Gabbert I really like her but she said this and that Joel Rogan I really like him but he said this and that that was my first response my second response was wait a minute take a deep breath Victor you’re not a never Trumper there is a logic to this and then I started what would be the logic and I can see it and he was building an ecumenical movement that would disarm his it’s going to be very hard for people on the left to go after RFK on the idea that he wants to make food safer right and it’s going to be very hard to go after Tulsi Gabbert when she was a member of the left and she’s warning about the Frank Church likee uh warnings earlier that the CIA and and the FBI have a tendency to Rob your civil liberties it’s going to be very very hard in other words to go after a lot of these people and that was by intent so I I don’t know how the next Administration is going to work out uh he’s 78 years old and he’s got a lot of problems and Joe Biden left a complete train wreck for him abroad and at home he’s got a border that’s a mass foreign policy but I have a great deal of admiration for him and I like and he completely revolutionized the Republican Party first person to win a popular vote since Georg of the party since 2004 and another thing that gets me really angry and we mentioned mandates and this is the new as the California uh Illinois New York votes Trail in the blue States his lead that was once 51% is getting down to 50 around 50 so they’re saying see it’s not a lands slate no as I said earlier in the podcast every issue was Landslide uh polling border crime economy foreign policy and Trump embraced those and was the messenger for overwhelming overwhelming change right and but more importantly Trump himself was running not just as a candidate embracing overwhelming mandates he was running as a candidate that they had tried to put in jail that some people had tried to kill some people tried to get him off the ballot and he was the object of 90% 90% negative media coverage by NBC CBS ABC NPR PBS and he was outspent if you count the money in the harris. Biden campaign coffers and the political action committees he raised in total about a billion they raised with Biden about a billion point8 right and yet he won how can a person go over all of those he had Academia against him he had posters against him he had athletes against him he had entertainers against him celebrities against him foundations against him traditional media silicon and he won it’s just astounding it to me it is and I don’t think we appreciate that sometime well I’m worried about the appreciation we’ll get to that um in a in a little bit but it’s interesting you you just mentioned MSNBC so maybe it’d be a good point right here to get your thoughts Victor on the news now from when dear listeners you’re you’re hearing this about a week ago of Comcast which owns NBC wanting to I don’t know sell get rid of maybe a variety of their um cable channels including MSNBC and they have the CNBC oxygen some others I think I think the History Channel maybe I’m not I’m not positive about that but anyway um MSNBC is uh going to be on the um auction block or sale block do we should we should we give it care anymore does it does it really matter what these lunatics are saying I think the only chance for it is Elon buys it yeah but what’s happening is um MSNBC is not sustainable there’s only one person that they feel can get an audience and she’s spoiled rotten and we know who that is don’t we well is it a certain lady that likes to show her neckline all the time and she has a haircut of a man that one yes okay and uh anyway uh it’s not Joy Reed no well Joy Reed is I think she Expendable and uh yeah well well I don’t want to Joy Reed is a person who has told us that anyone who wore cornrow who was not black was was culturally appropriating and she’s dyed her hair blonde Joy Reed says that we’ve got to stop racism and cannot um open her mouth without uh uh racializing every topic she is nobody wants to turn in uh to a station tune into a station when she constantly is obsessed by race right and every so my point is they’re in a uh they’re in a doom Loop because they have this small loyal audience that likes to be told they’re brilliant and the world around them is stupid and uh and it’s shrinking because a lot of people want to be with the winner just like the 49ers out here when they’re 10 and0 everybody wants to be a fan when they’re 0 and 10 you can’t find a fan and so that’s that’s just the truth so it’s a mega Victory they’re on the wrong side 20 or 30% of Their audience wants to feel an uplifting message and and they feel the country is changing so they’re leaving them as NBC so then they’re in a dilemma the other they have this small audience of 800,000 the other five or 600,000 wants to be spoonfed every night hatred against the right and Trump and it’s not doesn’t have the revenue you put an addon that people are not numerous enough to go out and buy that product to to ensure a rate that they can charge the the m C so what do they do if they expand the audience they have to fire the whole cadr if they fire the whole cadway at least in the short term they’re going to lose that six or seven uh right 100,000 audience and so they don’t know what to do and so some of the solutions like which we said Joe Scarboro is uh will go over and we will make a deal with Satan and then we’ll tell everybody that we’re balanced and maybe we’ll get more people join us then we will lose that want to hear hatred and that’s what they’re trying to decide right now that each of them are trying to say which is which is the wiser course to take a little hit now uh from our minuscule audience and expand it and go back to the old CNN of years ago or do we just double down and um when you have Rachel mad can I say the name now I get really angry about her she’s poor well you should be feel bad 30 35 million a year for one night a week and now she’s taking a I thought she was only getting 20 million she went down to 15 but I just read that she was getting 30 or 35 and she she getting 30 yeah so she she’s down to 25 million so 52 in theory she doesn’t do 52 because of experience it probably does 45 but if she did do 50 every time that woman goes on there she’s getting what $450 $500,000 for that hour yeah and then all the and the comp it’s going broke it’s not a sustainable Enterprise is what I’m trying to say absolutely so that’s going to have to be it’s going to have to be changing and if you go look at happening ever everywhere The Egan Egan I think his name was egg and the editor of the Washington Post was just fired bezo said you know what I don’t want to hear all these Echo chamber hatred anymore he a political editor right yes political editor I do not want to spend a $1 million of my money so that you can be self-righteous sanctimonious and screaming yell to a shrinking audience right you break even I’ll do it but not this and I think his name is Ben persen at the Wall Street Journal he was a political he came from the Washington Post that was in the wilderness years of Donald Trump when the Wall Street Journal and I want to preface it by I have the utmost ex uh respect for five or six of the Washington I mean the Wall Street Journal aled Kimberly strael I really like her I think she’s wonderful Dan hener I agree with friend but but I got so that I just I can write Peggy Newton’s column in advance you just tell me what the political climate is this week and I will write a column word for word it’ll be almost what she says it’s predictable and when you look at the coverage at the Wall Street Journal they political essays and you look at the by lines the news division most of those reporters are coming from left-wing venues and most of those news accounts are anti-trump there are you can you can detect it and that was starting to bleed into the politics of the oped some of and they fired I guess he either fired him or he left Persian left so something’s going on where people are saying to themselves let’s get back to the news right and this hate Trump or hate the right is not where the people are they want a closed border they want to afford uh to buy a steak once a week they want to be able to fill their tank up they want to have a natural gas stove they want the country to be safe and respected abroad they want criminals to be put in jail they do not want San Francisco homelessness everywhere they don’t want looting they don’t want you to T they don’t want this Duncan Malone Melania or whatever his name was type of ads on television we’re just tired of it just stop it stop it you people are a very small vocal group but you’re not even close to a majority and you country mark it in they mark it in identity politics and the elections show one thing identity politics are are being significantly rejected and they’re overpaid they’re all overpaid they think they have this Talent Joy Reed doesn’t understand I I wish I could talk to her I’d say Joy I have no animus toward you but given your talents I don’t think you’re the author of an engaging book I haven’t read a book that you’ve written or two I don’t think you’re an effective columnist I don’t think you write influential essays do you have a podcast maybe but you what you’re saying on the eror is infantile and it’s just calling people names and racial names and when they fire you and they will fire you you’re going to have no market value no one’s going to want to hire you so you should stop that and try to be educated and aerody Di and analytical you can beat on the left but not that way and so all of these things are not sustainable right and it’s kind of like the the end of the Biden Administration right now it’s like you know it it it the world caught up you guys and us on the the Chinese Bon going over the United States the Afghan scadaddle the screaming and yelling at Israel uh China just telling China that they’re not a rival letting them take us to the cleaners it it just doesn’t work and it’s a mess and everybody knows it’s a mess and everybody knows we need to change so I think it’s The Jig Is up yeah and I’m glad it is but it’s it’s again I don’t want to be too upbeat but it’s it’s very exciting to watch this stuff yeah people I can I can see it at Stanford University believe it or not when Donald Trump won in 2016 there was lamentation tables there is not there was not milk and cookies and furry animals to pet for these child students there was not and the Banners are coming down on all of the buildings of you know BLM and Diva Liz for all that stuff they’re coming down and there there’s no there’s no encampments I haven’t seen an encampment 4 months we had the Hamas get in your face as you walk by and scream at you I don’t something’s changed I don’t think it’s willing change I don’t think it’s sincere change I think it’s based on fear I think the a if you’re an average student from Jordan or the West Bank and you think you can come over to someone else’s country and scream and Chase Jews into the library and somebody he says you’re breaking the rules and if you break the rules you’ll be suspended and if you’re suspended we’re going to have to do by Statute tell the Immigration and Naturalization Service ice Custom Service that your student Vis is no longer valid you’ll get your wish you get to go back to your beloved home but you’ll have to leave the United States that you hate so much that apparently was a deterrent well Victor um you mentioned for uh Ethan Edwards and you have of course have written about that he’s the character from The Searchers and the doing the dirty work that needs to be done and I referenced it in an article I wrote for Real Clear Politics this past week I first I want to say I woke up and I looked at Powerline blog our great friends there and Scott I saw Scott Johnson a couple of weeks ago with the City Journal uh dinner Scott’s just he’s the best and uh I’ve always like Scott and John and I like Steve Hayward a lot oh Steve’s a great guy yeah I I’ve never met John but Scott’s sweet sweet man but as you know they have an aggregator up top and six articles and one was you and one was my our dear friend Dan Mahoney and another was my piece of real clear and I just made my my my day that was to be in that company but I the I today is when we’re recording is again uh the 23rd to in real time tomorrow would be the 24th and that’s the anniversary of the the birth of William F Buckley Jr he would have been 99 he was still alive Bill died in 2008 but Bill’s the founder of the conservative movement and my piece was what would Bill say if he was alive today about what’s become of conservatism and of course you know there are many people who would say if Bill was around today he’d they’d say Donald he’d be a never Trumper that kind of craple and that was the point of my peace say you know there’s some very clear uh dots that connect between uh Bill Buckley and Donald Trump I don’t want to give him you know we can’t talk about rightly if somebody was alive what they would actually say we don’t know that but uh there are some real interesting connections um one is if if I may just for a minute or two and get get your thoughts know Bill ran for mayor in New York City 1965 and the the people the voters for Bill Buckley are there’s no question they were the Reagan democrats eventually and then eventually the uh people voting for Donald Trump no no question about that and if you look at the um inaugural issue of National Review in 1955 the issues that Bill said were the priority for our movement are still the issues today and they are really like a a MAA ISS a set of issues and Bill address in very um I think strong nonacademic strong language but in Bill’s rhetoric that um really parallel what Donald Trump uh says and there some there’s some other similarities everybody worth making yeah so Bill Buckley I only met him twice uh he was I won an award once at the wriston dinner from newscore uh no it wasn’t newscore it was that’s Manhattan Institute Manhattan yes talk was the um was the Eric Mandel Eric Mandell yeah but I anyway I sat next to him for the evening had a long a nice talk with everybody has differing opinions on what somebody who’s passed would say I know in families uh what would your mother say about that and siblings will argue whether would your father have still voted the way he did you I’m the inheritor of your I know I am that kind of stuff right and in the case of Bill Buckley as you know when Trump came on the scene there were two views there were your view which I share so I am a little prejudicial that there was a consistent distrust of doctrin republicanism and he waited in as you said to the queens and the Bronx and ran and he said that that famous thing that you just quoted that he’d rather trust the first 2,000 names in the phone book than you know theal faculty of har har yeah then faculty of Harvard if they were running the C but then there was the other counterargument and that was contingent on a false analogy but he was the one who exis exempt uh expelled the anti-semites and paleocon racist who did not get on board with the Civil Rights Movement even though he had had he had had complaints about the way Civil Rights was implemented rather than just uh I think he was kind of a Libertarian and say if you if you have a a restaurant and you don’t like somebody you have a right to do that or something but anyway the point I’m making is there was this struggle for his leg and the never trumpers were very adamant about that and they said well you know Bill b Buckley was alive he would be shocked at what Trump’s done to the Republican party and therefore this is key it’s our job to cleanse the Republican party of Donald Trump right and just as way he got rid of uh anti-semites and racists of course that was contingent on the idea that Donald Trump was a anti-semite for the for the comparison to be valid and he wasn’t he was the best friend that Israel ever had his daughter is a converted Jew as son-in-law as Jewish Etc and he got more Black and Hispanic votes and any other Republican of the Modern Age so I don’t think that analogy worked but uh that was a key point for me because I had started writing for National Review I think I mentioned that 2002 I was hired if you remember the day 911 911 right and Rich Lowry whom I did not know I was flying to Hillsdale to talk on George Pat and the the plane turned around halfway came back to the uh Fresno Airport I was locked down I think for 4 hours and Rich Lowry called me hello I’m rich Lowry I liked your book The Soul of battle would you consider writing for a while why well we had to let go an cter I think she’d said didn’t that she wanted a New Mecca or something or convert everyone who survived convert to Christian so she was let go I didn’t feel like I was parasitical taking her job you weren’t so anyway they said we’ll see how it goes twice a week and I I I I never stopped until 2020 you did not miss a single I didn’t miss whether it was the death of my daughter or whether it was a ruptured appendix in Libya or you name it being embedded in Iraq twice I I I did it I haven’t missed an American greatness since I was hired I’ve written I think it’s now been four years I’ve written over 2,000 columns without missing one but anyway the point is I was very loyal and natural with you but then this never Trump thing started and forget about the people I was very close to I thought were friends that were now attacking me and that’s true there were five or six of them who mentioned be my name I thought that was kind of a a rule that people didn’t attack each other within the confines of the magazine but nevertheless I couldn’t see how it was sustainable in other words I said to myself don’t whatever you think about him he is the nominee in 2016 2018 whatever you think about him it’s a successful agenda inflation is low defense is strong the world is without War the he’s trying to get the Border closed but the more successful he was the more outrage there was expressed and so finally I looked one day and I said my gosh subscribers are bleeding re readership is down this wonderful Bill Buckley Legacy is eroding before your very eyes stop it stop it stop it whatever you think do not attack the Republican president who embodies 8 5% of everything you fought for because if you continue to do this people are going to say hey National Review you must have never really you must have never really wanted conservative justices because Trump gave them to you in Spades hey you must have never wanted the Border closed hey you must have never wanted low taxes and deregulation cuz he’s done all of this and yet you’re saying he’s awful it’s whatever whether that was the correct ex Jesus or not it didn’t matter it’s not sustainable and so it wasn’t sustainable and I had to leave and you left and it’s not sustainable and what I I don’t think the Washington Post to take the direct diment is sustainable and msnc is not sustainable and that CA Harris uh campaign was not sustainable and what do they all have in common you do not insult the intelligence of your reader or your voter you don’t say to your voter you don’t really know what you’re voting I know more than you you are ill-informed and undereducated that’s why you don’t appreciate my genius or I have flipped and completely renounced my entire political philosophy but you’re too stupid to figure it out or I will not do an interview I won’t do a press conference I won’t be but you’re too stupid to know why I won’t do that and the same token is yes uh deregulation was good and now it’s bad because of the orange man’s fingerprints yes abortion on demand was bad but now it’s good because of the orange man’s fingerprints yes uh closing the Border was good but now it’s bad because of his fingerprints on that Paul that’s just insulting the readers and these are things everybody I think has the same experience in their own life with whatever Prof they engaging if you’re listening your home clean your home or you’re you’re a Salesman you’re on the road each person has to perform that task that particular day you have a little bit of marginal error if you’ve had a distinguished record to Coast but when you write a column in our business or you go on television you’re judge at that moment that second on the quality Visa other persons and you have to understand that appreciate that you don’t get a relaxation so if you tell somebody something in a column and it shows your personal hatred or it is sloppy or it is contradictory to what you said before or it makes no logical sense from the conservative point of view then you’re not going to have people follow you no matter what your name is and I think people forgot that I think somebody like George Will who was a very good writer very in he under didn’t understand that he really did all these never trumpers Bill Crystal they thought that they had been so successful that they had captured the hearts and minds of a loyal constituency audience that would do would stick with them the person rather than them the successful Persuader for forever and it just doesn’t happen I always quote my parents but my mom I one day she was a first appell at court judge second appell court judge in California was female first uh one of the she was second Superior Court Judge first juvenile court judge that was a woman in kept you know I think she was one of the fourth or fifth Stanford students to be a woman at law school so she but she was very successful but right before her brain tumor she was selling fruit every weekend after the the agricultural collapse in Santa Cruz and so we would load up this old used telephone fan i’ meet my Mom and Dad she was a Justice and she was out there with Levis and you know a t-shirt 64 years old selling plums Peaches on the table next to myself and my little kids you know and then one time she saw a very wealthy um lawyer and the lawyer said Pauline what are you doing here you’re selling fruit like a peddler she says I am a peddler we have a farm and we have to keep it going and you have to and you can’t ever think you’re better than anybody else then the person left and she said to me remember one thing even if you don’t believe that and I she did believe that even if you’re not just like people and you want more experiences of all different classes everybody goes up and everybody goes down and the people you meet going up are not necessarily the people you will stick with you when you go down those are the people that with you from the beginning so what she was trying to tell me is these farmers at the farmers market the people like that those are the constituency and you never never forget that when you you go yeah when I go somewhere and you know I’m ready to get on a plane and I’m running and I’m in line and somebody comes up and sticks a book in my face and says I saw you I’d like to I stop and sign it because that’s your constituency besides fact that they’re sincere and they want to talk and give you your ideas but I won’t mention one person he he was a trump official and never Trumper in but I was with a at a book signing and he was insulting get away D and he went down and I can tell you that he does not have any friends on the way down because he you know it’s not the same as your there’s sometime people like you on the way up but when you go on the way way down they don’t like you anymore CU they never liked you they just liked your success to hone in on but the people who were with you from the beginning will be there at the end if you treat them with respect yeah well you can’t as writers call people Carnival barkers and Chumps and Cletus and not expect uh uh the the um people to sour no conservative wants to read a magazine when they refer to the former conservative head of the United States is an ape and a helicopter yeah they just don’t want he read it
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