The Fatal Conceit: The Errors of Socialism with Aneesh Karve (WiM520)

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Fiat politics are rampant and people are very heavily identified with their favorite politician with their favorite party and they think well Cala needs this and Trump is why why do we need one ape to rule 330 million Apes like it just doesn’t make any sense people will come and say look at how much poverty there is under capitalism and this is a nominal error because those people would simply be dead under socialism they would not exist in the first place so it’s an observational era the idea of income redistribution is absurd because income was never distributed in the first place therefore How Could You redistribute it I know you’ve got some good individual rights and some nice accumulation of savings over here but we’re going to need to take some of that to serve this fictitious greater good I think it’s just the most sophisticated form of gang violence that humans know of and we’re still stuck under its spell and what is fascinating is that capitalism although at the hands of modern socialists attained a bad name capitalism is the only philosophy that allows you to care about people you’ve never met the most important thing that we can do is to create a fair set of rules for everyone to play by if I wish to profit and survive I have one way forward and that is to be of benefit to my fellow human [Music] beings the Fatal conceit the errors of socialism by Fredrick he um you introduced me to this book and like I was telling you offline I think the title way undersells it um I had only been exposed to hyek previously through his essay the use of knowledge in society and then his book uh Road two Road from surom the road to Surf to surom road to surom and I found his writing like good it’s very informative but it’s often quite dense this book is not an exception to that um but I liked other author there’s more like rothbard misus Etc but I’m glad you recommended this one because I think this is definitely his most interesting work that I’ve seen so far he’s like what year was he writing this I mean he’s basically a complexity thinker before complexity Theory emerged yeah this this book was published in 1988 and he died in 1993 okay and uh I guess we could start with an interesting little controversy this is definitely one of his most important works and another econ economists will tell you that the controversy is that he had an editor Bartlett and he was Ill during the finishing of this book and D Bartlett died in ’92 and hyek died in ’93 and so it’s kind of a little unclear on the authorship but the cool thing about this is that because it’s austan economics we can evaluate it on first principles and this density that you feel you know it’s it’s amazing because Hayek’s teacher is bonus yeah and we both know what reading Human Action is like yeah yeah for sure it’s like so first of all it’s amazing and you get to some pages where it’s just truth bomb after truth bomb after truth but you there’s a lot of cutting through jungle waiting through mud yes and so what’s amazing is this book is incredibly short and it it tells what I think is the most important story of our time and in all the work that we’ve done together I’ve only had one aspiration for Humanity and it’s that sound Arguments for liber will be commonly available and what a large part of the Fatal conceit shows is that our language our intellectual history going all the way back to Aristotle and Plato and going through Russo is totally poisoned yeah and it is poisoned in a way that we cannot see the forces that actually shape civilization yeah and before we came on uni we we had an interesting exchange about Evolution and I wonder I if you’d start there and and maybe we can use that to to talk about what the Fatal conceit is and and how it destroys civilizations yeah so um yeah you made a brilliant point about that and I guess before getting there you mentioned Aristotle just now and that was the portion of the book I was listening to right before we started recording yeah the fact that he was saying that um you know I guess aari was his preferred model of order and there was something about like humans can only be ordered within the sphere uh where they could hear the Harold’s voice something like that so like you needed one Central commander and a group of people that could all hear him to have order According to Aristotle but then hyek was arguing well here’s Aristotle living in the lap of luxury that’s dependent on these extended trade networks where they had like you know long uh grain trading networks I think with other societies that made you know Aristotle’s uh area Rich where he could you know had the luxury and time to write things like this but he didn’t even see that so it’s something like um the the flaw of thinking that order must be imposed correct rather than order can be emergent and if anything uh you know the modern perspective from complexity theorist uh people like benw mandal brought fractal geometry self-organization like and I guess what does that fall under Chaos Theory maybe I’m not sure yeah there’s a whole complexity Theory there’s there’s a whole emergence there’s a all Santa Fe Institute kinds of exactly but that that and you could almost call this what he calls the extended order which is basically order without design right without conscious design it just you could also maybe call that emergent order right it’s just order that emerges without anyone trying to consciously make it um make it emerge I guess you would say so so I just wanted to make that comment about Aerosoft but you brought up the brilliant point before we hit record that this is largely it’s almost like an evolutionary perspective on the way culture changes or the way um is Bridging the Gap between natural biological evolution and cultural Evolution something like it’s the same process but different substrate um one of the things I said to Jason Lowry along time ago and I probably got it through reading some of this stuff but uh actually it was reading the physics of life I think it may have been the origin of wealth where he talks about Innovation being essentially an evolutionary process but it’s happening in a different substrate so it’s like evolution is biological Innovation Innovation is non-biological Evolution it’s like the same process but different domains um so you were making the point that what Charles Darwin was arguing against there’s there are some parallels between what and what Hayek is arguing against the other thing I thought was interesting there too is which he said in this book Charles Darwin was reading Adam Smith at the time he came up with his theory which is obviously Adam Smith The Wealth of Nations the invisible hand right that moves markets um so so yeah maybe you could go through the point you were saying there again about the uh the parallels between darwinian Theory and what hyek has written here yeah so much to unpack there I think let me start by succinctly stating what the Fatal conceit is and it is the prime the philosophical and logical error of socialism and it is the idea that wherever there is order it must have been rationally and by implication planned yes and we’ll unpack that but I think the the First Leap in intuition for the listeners is to understand that when Darwin espoused the theory of evolution he was arguing against an implied Theory which was the theory of intelligent design and the leap he brought to the world was that there are some things that just happen whether or not there’s an there’s certainly no author in the anthropomorphic sense that this is a process which runs the s criteria are fully Dynamic are constantly changing and different byproducts evolve over time and those species which persist are precisely the ones which succeeded this game of survival MH so the theory of evolution was in apposition and in opposition to the theory of intelligent design and what Hayak comes to say is that socialists make the same mistake in a different domain and he says they much like Aristotle the Greek word is taxis or taxis as in taxonomy and Aristotle believed not only that order could only be attained in the reach of the Herald’s voice which is almost dunbar’s number you know whatever a few hundred people the town CER can reach and Hayek points out he was proven wrong in his own lifetime MH and as opposed to society only being able to be centrally designed there are certain processes that just happen and this is now kind of I this book is a master class in things seen and things unseen because not only because of our philosophy in our language but because of how we think and how our thinking has evolved it’s very difficult to see this invisible hand that forms the extended order and it’s important to note that haek was so concerned with the poisoning of the language uh are you familiar with this term weasel word no so he uses weasel word and he explains that’s because weasels have the ability to hollow out an egg without damaging the shell huh and so social is one of these weasel words and he uses and he has their Pages where there’s literally you know a list of 300 words that have been poisoned by by social justice social order social injustice and what he points out is that that word no longer means anything and there’s an invisible process which is received and this is the key point it is somewhere between Instinct and what we know as reason somewhere between Instinct and reason right and he calls it morality and I want to give some examples cuz it’s really hard to grasp this because he’s literally telling us about an invisible process that causes the market to work causes civilization to be ordered causes us to be able to go to work each day and affect millions of people around the globe through our economic actions without even knowing these people right and what is fascinating is that capitalism although it has in at the hands of modern socialist attained a bad name capitalism or the extended order is the only philosophy that allows you to care about people you’ve never met yeah right through the process of the market and through the process of the exchange but to bring that back to Evolution Hayek makes some really fascinating notes here so Not only was Darwin reading Adam Smith but what Hayak shows is that economists had the concept of evolution and genetics before biologist did and he goes through and a nurse that history and he shows that it’s been hidden in large part to what started with Aristotle went on through Plato went all the way on through rouso and Mill and all these people made a fundamental mistake and what they said is is that since the order that we have is designed we can redesign it but the mistake there is the order we have is not designed at Le it is an evolved order okay and this I’m going to spin this back to you this reminds me of some of the earlier work we did with Thomas Soul where Soul said the idea of income redistribution is absurd because income was never distributed in the first place therefore How Could You redistributed all right so the Socialist comes and under the influences of dayart rationalism compt positivism empiricism all these well sounding well-meaning philosophies says because this order is designed we can design a better order and that’s simply not true and that’s going to be the subject of the conversation but I want to I want to give you I want to give the ball back to you to to kind of spin some of that around yeah I mean the thing well the key Point here and it’s again the subtleties of language and semantics I suppose it’s when he says not consciously designed he’s saying that no group of men sat down with a blueprint and laid out you know oh this is the institution of private property this is the notion of money this is the rule of law this is how everyone’s going to interact and like put the plan in motion right right it was not top down it’s basically emergent it’s bottom up it’s this um long sequence of experimentation uh a lot of which we’re passing we’re passing forward the cultural knowledge largely through imitation as he as he says rather than like rational discourse and through that long process of experimentation we sort of discover the things that work best right like private property being one of these social institutions that is pretty much indispensable to human flourishing um and it’s also discovered in different times and different places so it’s not like which undermines the idea that it was ever centrally planned or top down imposed so um that’s the big I mean that’s the big theme of the book and then I think it’s difficult for people to understand that because we I don’t know I guess because we do live in a world where there is a significant top- down influence especially in 2024 when uh you know Fiat politics are rampant and people are very heavily identified with their favorite politician or their favorite party and they think the only solution to any problem is the passing of a Fiat law and you know all this nonsense we’ve kind of gotten away from our roots in in English common law and free markets and we’re really starting I mean now we have Cala Harris advocating for things like price controls right like the the opposite of um free market fundamentals so uh I guess that would be like the the the theme that we’ll keep coming back to as we as we work our way through this book yeah and what I what I’d like to dilate on there is kind of the The Logical and philos the logical and empirical impossibility of socialism and what what I want to again establish is that H everybody knows Instinct okay so instinct is what causes you to have a feeling of revulsion when you see blood or to pull your hand off of a hot stove um there others the instinct to reproduce the instinct to eat there are so many primitive instincts and what haek points out is that this nonrational function again which you calls morals there’s no good word this is amazing throughout the book yeah haek points out cases where the German language is even inadequate and you know German is famous for being able to build kind of custom tailored words exactly for the situation so the best he can do is morals and he’s not talking about religion and I want to kind of dilate on that and give some examples so he relies to some extent we talked about on the one hand you’ve got Aristotle Plato Russo and some of their successors and they kind of propagated this here but on the good side of things you have philosophers like like Hume and Sir Caro poer who started to refute these ideas of rationalism and one of the conclusions of Hume and empiricism and positivism all these kind of related all of these philosophies have a common threat in them and that they believe that unless you can justify an action you should not undertake that action immediately we should see that intuition is is taken out of the picture MH and we can start to think about a very important Concept in all of Hayek’s work and it’s the concept of dispersed knowledge MH and what he says is that in order to act in everyday life there’s all different types of knowledge that only exists in people’s heads and hearts not even their rational head and if we then say we have to totalize and centralize all this knowledge that we can achieve a socialist Utopia we’re saying we have to undispersed knowledge and that is akin to driving a car over email right like can you imagine like oh should I I go right or show left here let me email somebody and so it’s not and haak develops this concept of the man on the spot who has to use the disperse knowledge that only this person this man this woman it doesn’t matter your gender happens to have at the moment oh my daughter is allergic to these things let her not eat that like no Central planner is going to know the the quirks and idioc secrecies of the moment that you’re in and the important thing is that not only disperse knowledge but we we Define pretty well what Instinct was now this faculty which restrains our instinct is the moral level MH so it’s not H is very careful not to commit the naturalistic policy so he’s not saying that what is pleasing is good in fact he sticks with velt fide which is the valuelessness of Austrian economics he’s not making any value judgments but what he says is that this moral layer which is ACH which is received through culture and through imitation which is protected by religion but is not the same as religion has the role of restraining our Instinct and now is where things really start to get interesting what we call our reason is a product of this morality yeah and it is it is a a bootstrapping error or a recursive error in some sense if you will to think that oh our reason which was created by this moral process of evolution I’m going to give a very specific example our reason is now able to modify its mother right so and and this is I mean akin to the idea that to take the human body the entire industry of drug Discovery and medicine is about unintended consequences offt Target effects iatrogenics okay so would you now propose to modify your own DNA with rationality like no it it is the product of billions of years of evolution and I want to give you an example uh and I’m going to give a few so what are examples of this morality what HX calls several property he he’s he he specifically says I don’t want to say private property and and maybe you can help me I think he says several property because that is not property it’s the understanding that property belongs to an individual is shared by a society and this is critical yeah so several property savings honesty these are examples of evolved moral practices that over time made some groups more successful than others and all we can do in retrospect is reason about how these characteristics might have caused certain groups to succeed over others but we cannot because the future is unknown to us because the contingencies Of Human Action are unknown to us we can’t look forward into the future and project our rationality forward and say these are going to be the processes largely because the conditions are unknown that are going to make humans successful in the future and and I I’ll I’ll pause with this example so and we might have used this on a prior podcast but I’m always striving for what are concrete examples we can give to people and in the country of India when you perform a holy ceremony or when you give a gift to somebody you always do it with your right hand MH and the reason is you wash your backside with your left hand now at the time when this be and this this practice persists today in India and it is a very serious it is a very serious deal and at the time when this practice evolved I don’t know how many thousands of years old it is I remember my mother teaching me this and you know again whenever I participate in any of these family rituals like this is something you do you always give with your right hand never with your left hand it’s considered insulting to do so they didn’t know with their rational Minds that oh I’m spreading leria and salilla that’s no but in actual point of fact although this seemed like a Superstition it was 100% a survival adaptation nobody understood it and nobody need to needed to understand it yeah and so the the word I want to end with here is adventitious a is teaching us this like a route that kind of goes everywhere is that we don’t know the future we don’t know the course of evolution I mean you couldn’t have asked a single cell organism what will mammals look like we don’t know the future and so what Hayak is concerned with is preserving the extended order by making sure that enough individual freedom of choice is preserved so that people can try different practices and we can learn sometimes in many generations you the individual may not learn but the species will learn sometimes in many generations we can learn that hey this practice of honesty and savings was actually very important for survival yeah well it’s fantastic and um again going back to the book I think it’s in the physics of life or the origins of wealth I’m confusing the two now but um they one of the authors two different authors cites the algorithm of evolution which is if it works keep it if it doesn’t discard it and so that’s what I the what hyek seems to be looking at here is that there are these long processes by which we discover things not necessarily with our rational mind but more likely with just uh trial and error right and then we we find a thing that really works for a given purpose so for instance those groups of people that discovered what he’s calling several property which I you know I would just say is individualized property basically right like everything belongs to someone individually and individuals are free to trade those things that opens up the division of labor that opens up additional economic Prosperity so the groups that do discover that principle and live by it will tend to economically outperform those that do not such that over time this principle or this idea of several or private property spreads right because because of natural selection right it’s those that are economically favored by this principle will out compete those that are that have not discovered it or adopted it and so um and I love the example because it does come back to knowledge and you know I’d always Point people to his essay the use of knowledge in society where he’s describing you know how knowledge emerges how we have to make use of it it’s the man on the spot as you said I love the example you gave of I’ve never heard that one driving a car by email yeah because that’s effectively what you’re trying to do an centrally planned scenario right it’s like instead of you the driver taking in your sensory inputs on the spot as the pedestrians cross the street and the road curves and it starts to rain you know all the factors of the environment are changing and you’re adapting to them in real time if You’ imagine instead having to send an email off to some Authority and asking permission right oh it’s raining now can I turn my windshield wipers on there’s a pedest can I press the break the road’s curving can I turn left you know like it the it knowledge loses all of its relevance and its accuracy and its actionability I guess when you have to send it off somewhere to get approved basically so what Hayek as I understand it is arguing for is like we need to maximize the individual’s ability to respond to any given set of circumstances which the you know that’s one good definition of responsibility is the ability to respond and that’s something he closely connects to property right that it actually makes people more responsible by giving them uh accountability over the things they own which is not only the rights to enjoy their benefits but also the responsibility to maintain these things so um and yeah I think I’ll I’ll leave it there for now I guess the other thing he he does say at some point I’ll be paraphrasing now but this process is natural in the sense that it’s emergent but it’s not natural in the sense that it is there’s a cultural element to it right like we it’s like we’re discovering principles that work for humans naturally but it’s the the process itself has taken place in a cultural domain right that we’ve actually run these experiments over and over and over it’s not it’s not so much Evolution that’s giving us this but it’s it’s more more the domain of innovation I guess and maybe there’s a Continuum there like it’s kind of hard because you are it’s like Discovery right like what do you say when you discover the higs Bon or whatever it is like well what is that Innovation that got you there or is that Evolution that got you there I mean yeah and it’s it’s not only Innovation but also everyday performance and there’s so much to unpack there in what you just said but the first is that this idea Liberty is nothing like Anarchy and there’s also great it’s not just Innovation and adventitious that’s how strategies are evolved over time but it’s also the stability the rules that you choose to live by yeah and by having more and more rules several property savings honesty we have a a greater and greater capacity to divide labor which is the force that creates wealth which is then the force that creates population which is then again the force that creates more wealth that’s right and Hayak does a really neat thought experiment in this book and he’s like if the entire world was reduced to 10,000 people even if we retained all the knowledge I mean you can say goodbye to your iPhone you can say goodbye to AI who’s going to have time for that our existence will be forced we’ll be only thinking about subsistence because we simply don’t have the Manpower so Hayek and you know this is actually a really good point in that I talked about this lineage of thinkers who have misled us while m is one of them yeah and hyek doesn’t even he says that malus had the right model for the wrong World M and he said that in malus’s World there were only laborers and non- laborers in some sense and he said in such a zero sum World sure it would be the case that we will run out of resources but in fact in a world where we can continue to divide the division of labor finer and finer we can continue and he is a proponent of population growth and he calls bollocks on erck and all these other thinkers who say that oh we’re we’re in the the midst of a population bomb yeah and now let’s think of ways to to put this all together so we’ve stated what the Fatal conceit is and it’s the idea that order always comes by conscious design what we know as Central and rational planning I want to talk about dcart a little bit and this error in deart there’s a book by damasio I believe is his name by a neuroscientist and looking at selective brain injuries he shows that I think therefore I am is a lie okay now this is so dart’s kajo I guess is the foundation of rationalism you could think that right and yeah and subject object Duality yeah well I want you to come back to that well is this establishing subject and object when it says I think therefore I am yeah right so the subject thinks about the objective world and therefore he established him himself as a subject separate from the objective world uh again this is like a linguistic thing I don’t the The Core lesson is like there is no separation right there it’s Continuum we’re slicing it up with language to try and understand it so this becomes now and it’s it’s ironic that you mentioned this before the recording this become this dart’s error becomes a study in the Fatal conceit and in the evolution of morals and here’s how it works the book dart’s error is about people with different brain injuries and and the first injury they they discuss is a very famous One the railroad worker Phineas Gage who as you know had a railroad spike grow go through his skull okay and it knocked out a particular part of his brain and he was still able to work and he was still able to rationalize but the emotional centers of his brain had been damaged and as a result he was totally incapable of functioning mhm it would be by modern Neuroscience alone it would be much more correct to say I feel therefore I can think and what this means is that when people lose the emotional centers of their brain they lose the ability to live their everyday lives even though their their ability to do concrete operations mathematics spatial operations is fully intact they cannot exist and you can this starts to give us a clue to how much of our existence is run by things that aren’t thought and are not Instinct again Instinct will barely keep us at the level of cockroaches yeah and what these things include are the received behaviors that we act by that restrain our Instinct and that we use every day but cannot possibly the be the part of our the thought of our rational mind and this was again hume’s point is that our moral Traditions cannot be the product of our reason in fact the reverse is likely to be what’s true and so we can see the this is what I’m going to turn it over into in cognitive science in fact this is really interesting there’s a guy named Don Norman he wrote a famous book called the Design of Everyday Things and another book which is on emotion and design and what he points out is the brain has three levels the visceral level which is kind of like instinct the behavioral level which is the level of Mastery and this is highx moral level in some sense and it has the rational level where we actually reflect right if you took away the let’s take it a concert pianist is actually using is not use they don’t think about every note they would never finish the conero right they would never finish the concert that is ingrained into their behavior and so this is again to show is that what runs Society is so much more than what is rational and encompasses what has evolved and what is received and this is the important thing what we cannot justify yes and when you think about the pandemic and think about well you know why don’t you want to take this this therapy or whatever well I don’t need a reason that’s right I don’t need a reason and you know whether and the important thing here’s the the crazy thing and this word diversity is going to come up the fact that what is necessary for the survival of the species is the preservation of optionality so that different groups can do as they please and we can observe the results and this is the key thing and haak goes and shows this maybe I’ll find the quote that there are so many places where science is blind just because something hasn’t been proven doesn’t mean it’s true Point number one we also know from mathematics that not only are there an infinite number of things which are true but cannot be proven there are propositions that are undecidable MH and we also know that as soon as you aim for total completeness you no longer have consistency so this again to say Neuroscience shows us that hey there is a visceral a behavioral layer right just as hyek is saying hey there’s this moral layer and it’s not just about rationality and once you see this you can’t unsee it because time and again people will come this is the example I’ll end with before turning over to you people will come and say look as an example look at how much poverty there is under capitalism and this is a nominal error because those people would simply be dead under socialism they would not exist in the first place so it’s an observational error yeah and we time and again come to Prosperity like the extended order that is evolved and then say hang on I have a good idea I’m rational let me plot the course but such rationality can never be sufficient for a dynamic future yes yeah it so in rationality we have a much lower throughput data Channel basically right like what rationality can comprehend um I’m going to call it imitation I guess that’s between Instinct and reason yes because I’m I’m I’m in the Rene Gerard mtic desire rabbit hole and I’m pretty big on imitation being the primary means of cultural transmission yeah so I’ll go with Mimis or imitation that there’s a lot more data that can flow through that channel than can flow through the the rational Channel alone we know even with infants like within 36 hours of age they are capable of mirroring their mother’s facial expressions for instance so like it’s it’s something very deeply ingrained it’s pre-linguistic pre- rational right to the extent you consider a 36h hour old infant pre- rational um and this also called to mind the I always go back to this quote by Alfred North Whitehead which which really resonates with what Hayek’s writing Whitehead writes civilization advances by extending the number of important operations which we can perform without thinking of them so the whole not the purpose of the extensibility of civilization is in this automaticity or this automation that we’re encoding into the system right where we have have protocols right protocols for uh resolving disputes over scarce assets for instance right we have the rule of law we have private property um even money is a protocol right it allows us to understand the qualities of the world and a quantitative framework so we can calculate execute negotiate trades and and perform economic planning in Bitcoin we often dream about the idea of forming citadels which are independent self- Sovereign communities that have their own energy food and water resources today that dream is becoming a reality at the farm at Oki phoi the farm is a 705 acre regenerative agriculture Community located at the Florida Georgia Line near folon Georgia the farm is known as the healthiest place on Earth and it includes Orchards organic standing Gardens regenerative animal 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their brand secure early stage funding and grow businesses that fuel the global adoption of Bitcoin go to Wolf nc.com to learn more or apply today again that’s wolf WF nc.com yeah the the malthusian thing God this one bothers me so much because and I feel like this is the the Crux of why I think we’re living and hopefully exiting the economic Dark Ages that we have actual people in positions of power and authority people in positions of great wealth that truly believe that this planet is overpopulated um I’m pretty sure you can take every human on the planet and fit them inside the state of Texas I think there’s actually more than enough room like people have you know their own little plot basically and then further to the point is like if you understood classical Libertarians they would say that no actually the larger the population and the more we have these simple rules and protocols between us the deeper the division of labor will go and the more wealthy we will all be right and to your point it’s like you could have all the knowledge we have today but if you if you skim the population down to half a million or 50,000 or 10,000 well we would we’d be toast because ultimately all of this resource allocation boils down to human time right that’s what we’re actually doing there’s no and safety and makes this point in his book the Bitcoin standard there’s no physical resource that is practically scarce like the real bottleneck is human time and how much time we allocate towards its production and so ultimately that’s what we’re doing is trying to allocate our time in a way that most satisfies uh the most urgent consumer wants as it as misus would probably phrase it and the only way to do that is to give people individuals maximal freedom but maximal freedom Freedom doesn’t mean just this unrestrained do whatever you want it it means that up until the point of theft coercion violence right like the the what’s the classic one the right my right to swing my fist stops where your face begins kind of thing it’s like everyone has this absolute freedom but they are restrained from stealing from or harming other people and like it’s that restraint I forget how H phrases it he goes it’s by means of that restraint that we free ourselves to pursue such you know much wider ends basically so there there’s like a paradox of Freedom built into this whole thing that we have to actually restrain ourselves from certain coer of activities such that we can unlock the possibility of more peaceful prosperous and productive human life basically oh fascinating so much to talk about there you mentioned earlier this process of abstraction and I guess there are at least four major examples that haak gives of systems that are evolved have no Central director they are language law money and science like there’s no director of science now there are people who try and interfere with this but Market as well right Market yes yes and and that’s the kind of the hardest one and one of the intellectual debts that we have to pay and this is fascinating the Romans and I believe also the Greeks considered the only honest occupation to be farming remember we going back toist and because they actually produced something everything else where you’re using even your physical labor like to be a gladiator it was considered that that was considered a form of prostitution because you’re using your body to please other people yeah but nothing could be further from the truth and what we’re saying is that this is about the scene and the Unseen we should talk about more uh the broken window fallacy being example of the Unseen a minimum wage laws being an example of the Unseen like well the seen effect is these few people will be employed at a greater rate and the Unseen effect is the real minimum wage is zero for the rest of the people because the total quantity of money in the economy doesn’t yeah actually increase so these unseen effects are are what guide the evolution of these processes and you mentioned abstraction and so it is because of the division of labor that I have the luck and great Fortune to call myself a computer scientist I mean farming is is a lifelong apprenticeship I I don’t know anything about growing wheat or farming animals or any or husbandry yeah and so this shows very precisely that the more rules we are able to inhere in society and the more abstract rules we’re able to inhere in society the Freer we are yeah to specialize at what it is that makes us unique and how it goes so far as to say is I can think of no counterexample to this idea where as the population becomes denser and denser and there’s a flywheel effect here and what is it the division of labor creates more wealth wealth creates the ability to have more progyny more progeny creates the ability more people along which can divide so there’s a flywheel effect there and we absolutely want more people and want more individuals and this is again an evolved process this is how Evolution Works whichever group produces the most people that is able to survive into the future is the group that is this is not a moral Pro well it happens in large part through the functioning of what high kak cors morality but it’s not about who’s right and who’s wrong it’s about what survives over time and this totally transcends our rationality and in terms of abstractions I want to you know introduce this concept that money is the ultimate abstraction and as Misa says is this is the common denominator for economic calculation what does that actually mean can you imagine if I had to barter my way through existence I’d be like okay this guy wants three eggs so I can get a 2×4 and with that 2×4 I’m going to trade it to this other guy for a basket of blueberries I mean this is absurd but because we have the most sellable commodity over time again language law money science the market itself because we have this abstraction and the rules of money we are able to abstract our lives in a way that we can just press a button and make something happy happen and so many interesting things here what Hayak points out is that the Russo of the world and again Soul also picks on Russo because Russo famously said man is Born Free and everywhere in Chains and what Hayak points out is that R rouso is longing for he calls it activistic or regressive rouso is longing for a tribal time when Instinct Reigns supreme but that’s actually going backwards and he explains when you belong to a primitive Society or pre-industrial Society you are subject to the whims of the Headmaster or the chief Point number one you’re constantly subverting Your Instinct for what is good for the group and so rouso has created an absurdity by suggesting that freedom is now is to go backwards and to indulge in our instincts when that is slavery to Nature because the state of humanity in nature is poverty the only system that produces abundance and you know we can dispute this and happy to bring up the numbers is capitalism and and the extended order and and I want to read a quick quote from haatt here he says after asserting that animal Instinct was a better guide to orderly cooperation among them men than either tradition or Reason rouso invented the fictitious will of the people or general will and this comes into Marx and socialism we’ll talk about that through which people through which the people quote become one single being one individual this is perhaps the chief source of the Fatal conceit of modern intellectual rationis ration ISM that promotes to lead us back to a paradise wherein our Natural Instincts rather than learn restraints upon them will enable us quote to subdue the world as we are instructed in the Book of Genesis and this error is nothing but animism it’s the belief that oh Society it’s again it’s what is animism animism belief that objects have their own purpose and their own Consciousness and this is exactly what Marxism does with Society it says well there’s this common will yeah and this common will is now capable of forging the extended order and it’s not and one of this is one of the reasons why High a coin extended order because social is a weasel word yeah and Marx plays this game where he says that everything good he attrib that the collective needs to do he attributes to society and everything bad he attributes to the state yeah and it’s only by creating this false dichotomy that he’s able to sustain this fantasy anyway so many interesting threads there but I hope what we’re showing is that uh also inherent in our received philosophy and in socialism is this desire to return to primitive state but that is absolutely far from freedom because that is eeking out your survival that is you against the elements MH and without the extended order and without the division of labor you will have to learn every skill necessary for survival you will not be able to specialize and you wouldn’t have anything like what we call a modern or life worth living yes no it’s great points uh I was reminded here there’s one part of the book where he’s talking about this word society and it being almost worthless because we actually exist in different layers right that there is the extended order that we’re participating in where we go to work to the benefit of people we don’t even necessarily know right like if you’re working on a assembly line to create a good you don’t really know who the final consumer of that good is right but because of the extended order that’s largely enabled well by all these things the language law markets money science right all of these um I mean these really kind of open- source software packets in a way right it’s like these are just protocols we’ve developed for human interaction discovery of things they enable the individual to go to work and to the benefit of someone he’ll never meet but then at in the home right there’s still this like individual Compassion or let’s say at the dumb Bar’s number level and below that compassion still works because there people that you know face to face and you interact with them on a day-to-day basis but this what was occurring to me is that that’s the same compassion circuitry that the state tries to hack at that Collective layer right they’re always saying hey you know what I know you’ve got some good individual rights and some nice accumulation of savings over here but we’re going to need to to take some of that to serve this fictitious greater good right where Marx and others have basically converted the collective into a deity of some kind or or or another individual like and so it’s that that subtle trick of language where people don’t understand that they’re participating in two different orders yeah that the state the rhetoric of the state seems to exploit and even when I say that like even I’m saying that like the state it’s like well who’s the state well the state’s different individuals different times different places it’s something that we like have to do for language to work for us to be able to abstract and talk about these things um in a in an economical way however if you start to mistake that uh what do you was anthrop anthropomorphizing these things you start to mistake that for the actual person like there’s not an actual person called the state there’s not an actual entity called the greater good if you start to take those things as real then you can get very confused and very vulnerable to manipulation basically yeah and and very much because it it appeals to our sense of family and our sense of instinct and again the great irony here is that socialism destroys the human will to create because it forces you to work on behalf of people that you don’t know but what did you just explain you just explain that money and capitalism allow you to work for other people that you don’t know yeah all any in the world yeah right and again thinking about ey pencil there’s no single person in the world who knows how to make a pencil the feral the lacquer the wood the graphite there are Specialists that construct all these things and yet for a few cents it happens to come together yeah yeah and this is the beauty of the transmission of information through the market process and this is something that the market is not a place or a thing it’s something that we discover you know I was thinking about this the other day so there was we had the the basis point 50 basis point cut from the FED yesterday and I’m watching NBC actually the woman next to me just came from a a Morgan Stanley conference she on as on the plane to Miami and she’s watching and I’m just watching all these Talking Heads and I just see the number 50 basis points pal and they’re showing the market and I’m like that’s not the market like what is they’re they’re showing like a bunch of people in a trading room I don’t even think anything is pit traded where the market is happening all over the world we don’t know the direction that it’s going but the best thing we can do is arrange things arrange the rules so that the entrepreneurs can SA safy the desires of the consumers and and the market is this fully distributed process and so we have this capacity to anthropomorphize and try and make things human scale and you know this is the terrifying thing so Hayek says that there’s no there’s no good word in German or English for the quality that the the extended order has and the best one he comes up with in English is Transcendence yeah okay and and this is the sense of awe strangely that capitalists Have and theists Have and not required H himself was an atheist and he goes on to say that in this book because he doesn’t know what this word god means but in a prior episode we read Steve Jobs’s went one of his last emails where he’s saying I am greatly indebted I love the species I don’t grow any of the food that I eat I don’t create any of the medicines that I depend on for my survival and here’s again one of the most significant capitalists in the world explaining how capitalism is the philosophy of love and cooperation yeah and it has been you know misus says very clearly they call everything they don’t like capitalism and proceed to reason that capitalism is bad so this is this kind of painful process that we’re in but here’s the interesting way to think about it and this goes back to the difficulty of expressing the extended order in language haak actually says he says there’s a German word kite okay which is the ability to make mbar I can make and that kite the makeness okay the make ability of something okay and this is fascinating now and he says uh there so many of the things that we think of as constru are not even constructed and he gives the example let’s take take a a molecule like ethanol or glucose that we manufacture you can Harvest these you can manufacture that malic acid may be a better example nobody actually manufactures that this is very important we create the circumstances where the atoms are predisposed to arrange that thing this is very important nobody goes atom by atom and says oh this is ethol that’s prohibitively expensive absurd to make things that way and so what we’re actually doing doing in a laboratory is we are creating we are inhering the conditions that allow things to arise that allows nature to do its thing and this is civilization yeah private several property honesty savings hard work there are so many different kinds of you know and and this is this is why human beings are are the single species on planet Earth that have a low time preference that are able to defer their consumption and this is why and Hayak talks about this it takes TW it takes 20 years yes of of a mom and a dad in many cases sometimes neither hammering on this growing brain to inhere all of the evolution that the all of the morals that are required to run Society MH and all the best we can do this is the amazing thing that so there’s this invisible process so and first of all I want people to pause and just if they can uh experience the awe of like wow I’m part of a world that I don’t understand there are people across the world working for me because we all value this thing called money there are innumerable skills and knowledge that I don’t have there are things that are physically impossible to reason about and yet the world functions yeah and the messages again much like we should not be under the illusion that anyone is synthesizing a compound I mean they are but you know you you have reactants and you have a catalyst they are creating conditions where something can happen yes and this is the nature of the order and this is how we should understand civilization the most important thing that we can do is to create a fair set of rules for everyone to play by as soon as we start reasoning about what the outcome should be we are now in the Fatal conceit and saying that oh this is how the future ought to turn out well that has no intellectual value and no predictive value the fact of the matter is the way the universe works is you have to roll the dice and SE and when we did discrimination disparities Souls one of Soul’s master I mean everything by soul is a masterpiece but what he showed is that the factors of success are in some sense randomly distributed and you have to have all of them to succeed so this is the adventitious Discovery and as we move towards a global economy if we want Global Order and not chaos we need to think about the common cultural constraints the common morality that is going to allow the structures of the future that we cannot plan to arise it’s all about creating conditions so the market is just a Level Playing Field it’s a fair set of conditions you participate it through in it through voluntary action and it is the only engine of planning I guess You’ call it distributed planning that has the capacity to produce profit and this is another thing so there’s this General mistrust of shamans and if you’re not a farmer like in the Roman era you’re some kind of prostitute okay and this is why people who engaged in trade which is an amazing way to create value but you don’t actually produce anything and if you can look even if you watch movies today the trader or the Comm the Commerce guy is always the shyer MH okay and ha goes through in the philosophy of Greece there was this concept of xenos or the protector of foreigners so it was a cultural practice to allow to give and even saw this uh if you’re familiar with Marcus Latrell this Navy SEAL was Operation Redwing one of the he was protected at the cost of his life he was the only surviving Navy SEAL by a member of an Afghan tribe that man protected him and so all of this to say there are all these evolved practices that we receive that together together allow us to create together I I I lost the train of thought a little bit there but it’s so rich and and I hope we can leave people with this sense of awe for how much is happening that is beyond the rational mind and we must never fall into our own conceit by believing that we understand science so perfectly and we are so rational and there’s a bunch of nonsense arguments you’ll read online about oh when we have quantum computers we can do a market auction and figure out prices it’s not going to work I’ll just tell you that right now cuz we need the ability to Tor and discover and we need to think about how we create conditions where the world can succeed and and B Network state is very much about this how do how do you have a series of conditions where a group of people can become powerful and yes in in a way that allows them to uh project themselves in the future yeah there’s another language thing there where it seems like Central planning right people often sort of weigh this in one hand as if it’s an alternative to individual freedom but I think it’s actually haak that say no that’s not the case at all it’s centralized planning versus decentralized planning he’s to to demonize Central planning is to not demonize planning itself obviously planning is a very necessary and important part of all of the things we’re talking about deferring consumption building businesses Etc uh you have to make plans you have to test them against reality you have to see where your intended outcome deviates from the actual outcome and then you have to recalibrate and adjust right it is that tinkering trial and error process by which we you know navigate circum ulate I think would be the yungan term for that our way into the future right you’re at a you want to go to B well you start going down the path and you get off the path then you have to reorient yourself and you get off the path again you have to reorient yourself as constant continuous process of of trial error reorientation um and that so there’s nothing wrong with planning per se but Central planning we almost a better term for it I I propose in one of my essays that we called it it’s often called collectivism right as a philosophy I think he uses the term constructivism in here I’m not sure yes he I think constructivism is part of rationalism and positivism and some of these other kind of uh philosophies that that failed us or blinded us to the extended order the idea that you can consciously construct uh sound Society something like that right yeah um I I like cois because it it really points out the problem it’s like no to get a central plan to work by definition you’re saying there’s other people that have their own plans and they don’t want to abide by that so you have to go budgeon them over the head and get them to comply right so it’s you need coercion to make Central planning operate I what I can’t help but wonder I mean obviously I probably haven’t uh o I’m over indexing on the monetary dimension of this but money does seem to be you know you could say private property these things all go hand inand but money is the lifeblood of the extended order I mean it is the thing that actually makes it work and so what makes me really excited is to think that wow we have achieved this level of the global extended order despite the fact that our money is so significantly impaired right we don’t even really have we have I mean we have gold which is like this geopolitical glob glal money but it’s not an it’s not an individual entrepreneurial Global money right most people participating in the market are using fiat currency to hold hold cash balances to trade with one another Etc so what excites me is the idea that we could if we if the Integrity of the money is um let’s say parallels the Integrity of the extended order or maybe the the extensibility of the extended order to what degree do we improve the World by improving the money right to what degree does this actually unlock um a level of innovation and civilization that we just can’t even fathom and so yeah it’s like what what’s the other another way another metaphor for this is like the global economy has a blood disease right if money is the lifeblood of the global economy and we don’t have actual money flowing in the world we have these unsecured debt certificates called fiat currency to what degree does the global economic organism become more healthy when we remedy the blood disease through obviously Bitcoin yeah well I’m glad you asked that there’s a there’s a little video of H that you’ll see in Bitcoin circles where he says I do not believe that we will ever have sound money until we take it from the hands of the state and the sly roundabout way the the foundations of that quotation are actually laid in this book and what Hayak says is exactly that is that through historically and he he gives as only high can all the citations and all many examples government has always so thoroughly debased and destroyed money that they made this process of experimentation and this process of generating the extended order impossible And he as as a then hypothetical or counterfactual he says were we if there were some magical way to rest money from the hands of the state we would be able to we would have a better chance at the extended order continuing to generate wealth and division of labor continue to generate wealth and you were looking for this you mentioned so okay the Socialism or instead of central planning call it coercive economy the the other term for socialism is a command economy yeah so the the market economy on the one hand and the command economy on the other and again there are so many examples of this and what the Austrian economists pointed out is is that the Soviet Union only lasted as long as it did because the command economies were able to copy prices imitation from from the capitalist economies right and even as Cuba is now in tatters that applies to Cuba and other modern socialist economies as well the small capacity that they have to see how the capitalist economies are functioning y strangely allows them to to pursue their typically the pricing right it’s the pricing Z exchange ratios and how much things cost yeah and I I’ll recapitulate it from one of our prior podcasts Mis points out that if you want clean water for an area you can filter the local water you can import the water or you can synthesize water from hydrogen and oxygen and it is only because we have recourse to a market that we know that the latter is an absolutely Preposterous idea and this is also the example that Hayek gives for how Traders create value and again because trade or Commerce is a thing unseen it’s not like hey I produce these cantaloupes would you like to buy them for MEC that a lot of the value created through trade involves bringing what he calls Trace elements are very obscure ingredients imagine the first people who traded the spice root and they brought turmeric back from India and I would love to see the faces of the people like what is this orange thing that it’s spicy like ginger but it looks like a carrot inside and all these novel combinations are are kind of part of it and to kind of transition us into into the rest of of Hayek’s argument there was a specific quote I I wanted to find and and what hyek points out is that why you’re looking for that one one connection I would like to throw out there uh at some point in this book he says I don’t know if this was him his writing or he’s quoting someone but he said ethics is essentially about how we divvy up the resources and again in ter the the perspective given in safe’s book uh drawing from the book The Ultimate resource uh that time is most the most essential resource it’s the most essential bottle not in obtaining or uh obtaining any resource producing any resource Hoppa defines ethics as what any one human can do to any other human in any given place or time and so there’s this strange ethics seems to be this kind of Union between like how do we actually allocate our time towards producing resources and how do we at the same time create ethical boundaries right it’s like what is acceptable or Justified for you to do to me or me to do to you and in again in establishing that boundary properly which I would argue is private property or several property you unlock actually more resources so I it was just occurring to me that all these different definitions of Ethics seem to have a a common point in in human time and that it it’s how you can spend it and if you spend it properly it can unlock uh a lot more product per unit of human time input yeah and it reminds me of of how the rationalist fallacy evolves or arises and it is a lot of it’s a false dichotomy because misus calls it I think the Anarchy of production people have this tendency to say is like well if we don’t have Central planning what’s the alternative chaos and there’s a few interesting observations I want to make there so the opposite of central planning is not no planning it’s distributed planning mhm and the central point in many of haak works is that this distributed form of planning takes into account more information and generates more wealth for more individuals than the alternative but the other part is that the resources the excess resources that are created by this process that we call the extended order have the the effect of creating more rules MH so I want think about that for a second so instead of needing more top- down control we need more cultural rules that individuals can follow because that is exactly what is implied is that in order for other groups to distinguish themselves through this process of evolution and survival they would need more rules and so again this is the ways in which our minds deceive us is that we think Liberty means less laws on the books and it does but it means more laws in the heart and more laws in the head right right and so and this is one of those I keep going back to things seen and things unseen and this is from basa you know the great French economic probably my favorite and the clear single book on economics and he says well if somebody shatters a window does that create more work for the glass workers yes but it’s ultimately not creation because that Capital had alternative uses which what you’re just saying about human time yeah is that there’s all these rich alternatives for human time but we can only discover those Alternatives a with population density B with an intense division of labor and see with these rules and you know here’s the other thing Hayek is order without organizations just because he’s saying that he doesn’t want governments to interfere and I’ll read the quote about money in just a second doesn’t mean we won’t have organizations they’ll just be through voluntary Association and this touches on elanar ostrom’s work as well and people mistakenly think that she was anti she’s very Pro libertarian in her thinking and what she shows is that first of all the tragedy that Commons is one of these aristot Alan fears not that Aristotle evolved it but it’s one of these irrational fears that oh no some people are going to take more and then they’re going to abuse the comments and what Ostrom showed is that what she call cprs common pooled resources like Fisheries yeah guess what if people evolve a set of rules for governing the commons you can totally have a shared fishery and you don’t in any way need or want the government coming in to interfere with what people can and cannot do with this is important the resources that their own livelihoods depend upon and this is why Misa says that entrepreneurs cannot be trained we and we as individual every single individual is an entrepreneur in their own life we risk our own destiny it is only in the process of risking your destiny and putting your skin in the game that you can even pretend to possibly make good decisions yeah and this is why it’s so offensive that a central planner would come and say oh this thing is not now forbidden it is now forbidden to own this class of object it is now forbidden to set the interest rate and you know I I have to admit even Trump is guilty of this now he’s saying we’re going to cap credit card interest rates at 10% anyway it is that is why it is so offensive and destructive to the Natural order for a central planner or what would we call a coercive planner to come in and say hey these are now the rules because the process of evolution is totally open-ended and we cannot hope to plan a process based on a future that is unknown yeah so and and this is what hyek says about money and and maybe we can we can roll that on to to a few more themes in the book he says the history of government management of money has except for a few short happy periods been one of incessant fraud and deception in this respect governments have have proved far more immoral than any private agency supplying distinct kinds of money in competition possibly could have been I have suggested elsewhere and I will not argue again here that the market economy might well be better able to develop its potentialities if Government monopoly of money were abolished and we’re finally seeing that through technology yeah and here’s the thing this was a passion project did Satoshi maybe he hoped it would be a trillion dollar market capitalization product he was just a dude who had an interest in cryptography and privacy and guess what he’s the product of his parents and cryptography came from a branch of math called number three and number three was nothing but fooling around with in with integers for decades for hundreds of years for centuries what if a central planner were to come in you know and and in this book Hayak points out that even great minds such as Einstein fell under the spell of socialism and Einstein is famous for saying production for use not for profit but what if I said mathematics for use not for profit right when then I would say well everybody should now become a state Economist and should calculate this that and the other no the very foundation of the one thing that is giving us freedom from State money was a bunch of mathematicians fooling around for 300 years that became cryptography and network security and encryption and shot 256 and all these ecdsa and all these Primitives that Satoshi used but they wouldn’t exist if people didn’t have the fre to fool around and do things that they were interested in and this is the critical thing it didn’t appear in their generation the greatest mathematician of all time gaus he said it is safe to assume number three was known as the queen of mathematics that number three will never have any practical applications but here it is that’s how you build encryption so all of that to say it’s the freedom of the individual to explore over many lifetimes mhm a new set of rules a new set of interests that for an totally unknown future I mean think of how unknown the future of the dinosaurs were and we may not be much different people will be able to try diverse strategies it’s the true meaning of diversity people actually being free to do different things fundamentally different things and you know in the work of Soul we see this was to take one example this is how the Armenians rose out of poverty they had this expertise in in cloth trading and they were interested in textiles and to this day they are in that industry M or the Scots spin like again it was said there was a Before hum’s Time about 200 years before there wasn’t a Scottish nobleman who knew how to write his own name but then they produce Hume and and and and and the great mind in this book so yeah maybe help me you can help me tie that point up about how it’s about the adventure of the spirit and you don’t need a reason for why you want to study number Theory or why you’re going to leave a mailing list when Gavin andri is like I’m going to present the CIA you don’t need a reason for these things but they end up being very important later and had it been purely a product of reason would these people have done anything I mean it is mathematics does use the Rio ctive F The Faculty but what to explore and when to explore it should be up to the individual yeah and the the the freedom the the Leisure that capitalism buys you or affords you I guess you would say is what gave those people the freedom the actual freedom of time to explore number theory for hundreds of years right without having to spend every waking moment trying to feed or shelter themselves so it’s it’s that Leisure that gets invested wherever people’s interests lie that can bear fruit that you would never foresee right like you even said g the greatest mathematician said number Theory would be useless well now it’s given us the most practical technology there’s ever been perhaps um and the point on profit too I this is another one that just blows my mind like we still are demonizing profit the profit motive and like these politicians that are attacking it it’s so [ __ ] hypocritical right that they are in office in pursuit of their own profit motive it’s practically become an inside joke now the Nancy Pelosi thing right where her salary is a few hundred thousand a year but her net worth has gone up $75 million she’s the greatest stock Trader of all time exactly and it’s like how can you you like somewhere in the book he describes the profit motive is something like the only signal that tells you when the amount of satisfactions that come out of it are greater than the the effort that went into it something like that like it’s it’s an actual signal of progress there is no other signal of progress right if it’s a profitable thing that means you’re you’re that people want it more than the inputs going into it right that you’re creating more human satisfaction than the sacrifice necessary to produce it something like that and if the profit margin is large enough well then it draws in a lot more producers to do the same thing yeah right and then until it becomes commoditized and the profit margins are thin and then we’re we’ve solved that problem in a very efficient way we can move take our attention and and allocate it towards solving larger and more complicated problems and like this iterative layering process driven by the profit motive is actually how we build civilization so it’s like I can’t believe we’re in 24 and people are still demonizing this thing like it’s it’s like demonizing words or demonizing math like any any of these signaling technologies that are that are essential to human cooperation it just makes no sense well this is part of this broken intellectual Heritage that we all have right and learn through school then this section from H is called the condemnation of profit and the contempt for trade so the condemnation of profit comes from and you know in the Bible we have warnings against Usery you know unusually high interest rates and the request for honest weights and measures and this is Again part of the mysticism that well and this is the people the feeling that people have for Wall Street well these people don’t produce anything Occupy Wall Street movement okay and I think what we need to do instead of saying is understand what those people might be thinking okay and the first thing that they this is Again part of going all the way back to GRE or Roman times the contempt for trade and you know who’s this Foreigner going to foreign lands and you know not producing anything but presuming to connect person a with person B and then make a profit in the trade and I want to read a few important passages from H here so he first notes that disdain for profit disdains progress so in this world in which we do not know one another and that’s the world we all want to live in because that well one can argue that maybe ultimately for our happiness we don’t want iPhones and these kinds of things but without a large planet without large profits the iPhones of the world are impossible and it is then Preposterous and hypocritical for government to say as K Harris has said and Trump has own feelings we will take away your patent she’s on tape saying this we will come and steal your patent if it’s for the good of the people right uh that fails to take into consideration that destroys an environment where anybody would even try to make something that hard why would somebody if SpaceX couldn’t ever be profitable why would Elon Musk even try to get someone to Mars that’s right if intellectual property and that would be very controversial couldn’t be protected nobody would even try to discover certain drugs okay so so again disain for profit disdains progress why because profit is not something extra it’s just in this game we play where we don’t know one another but want to cooperate and help one another across the game where extra money is appearing is a signal yeah just as in in the in the boom and bus cycle that misus talks about in the business cycle that misus talks about there are signals like the interest rate that the that uh can be either false or correct that cause entrepreneurs to to overestimate or underestimate uh the profitability and the viability of the business at a given time profit is just a signal that something is working and guess what we should be thrilled with this when there’s profit for a New Drug it means that we’ve found something that millions of people found useful and again this is part of the fallacious thinking of Marxism and here’s how Marxism reasons they says well the bah don’t actually produce anything the workers produce everything but what they don’t realize and H brings this out is that without the existence of the bis there’s nothing for the proletariat to do because there’s no one directing the capital there’s no one building the factories and the reason you can go to your job earn a wage come home and you know I’m sad to say this American dream is dying because of inflation and put your kids through school and you know have an apartment or have a place to live the reason you cannot know what you’re doing is because the director of the factory and the market forces tell you what to produce and you don’t have to worry about who’s going to use your things so here is what Hayak says about this he says it is hence hard to believe that anyone accurately informed about the market can honestly condemn the search for profit disdain of profit is due to ignorance and to an attitude that we may if we wish admire in the atic who has chosen to be content with the small share of of the riches of this world but which when actualized in the form of restrictions on profits of others is selfish to the extent that it imposes asceticism and indeed deprivations on all sort on all sorts on others and you know this is again the the blind spot of socialism they’re not even willing to expose their philosophy to empirical test and what I’ll flip over to you with there isn’t a the the basis of Marx is philosophies and socialism as a whole is that the proletariat are suffering because of exploitation by the bgea and yet there is not a socialist country in the world where the condition of the workers exceeds the condition of the workers in capitalist countries MH so to say that the workers are oppressed is a misnomer because they wouldn’t even exist under a centrally planned economy and they would have no Direction I mean and again I guess last point there was this uh little this Marxist Professor on Twitter was saying you know someone asked him a question is like well under socialism would I get my Xbox and he said well yes but you would have to convince the other Factory managers that this was something worthwhile and guess you would still get your Xbox 0% chance because it’s the division of labor yeah and the existence of profit that drives that division of labor and drives people to divide labor that allows such extravagant things that are so far from subsistence so far from survival to arise yeah yeah it’s so yeah it Irreplaceable right there’s no other system to create this level of wealth and progress do you want to give your kids a foundation of Freedom an understanding of Bitcoin and a healthy skepticism of government then you should try Tuttle twins it’s a cartoon about a grandma with a time traveling wheelchair who takes her grandkids on hilarious Adventures to learn about economics and freedom think the education of Magic School Bus meets The Comedy of The Simpsons with Tuttle twins your kids can learn about Bitcoin from Satoshi Nakamoto Civil Disobedience from Harriet Tubman natural rights from John Lock and how to destroy the economy from Carl marks today Hollywood green lights a lot of woke content or mindless garbage each episode of Tuttle twins is parent funded parent vetted and only released when its parent approved because Tuttle twins is fanf funded it was the world’s first kid show to teach about Bitcoin that episode alone has been seen over 40 million times and was tweeted about by Michael sailor you can watch episodes of Tuttle twins for free right now and if you like what you see you can use code breed love for 10% off a subscription to the angel Studios app and watch all of the episodes so go to angel.com / Breedlove to discover Tuttle twins today and remember to use code breed love for 10% off one of my highest health priorities is keeping my brain in top shape to take care of my brain power I do many things such as striving to read write exercise and meditate daily one of the latest Tools in my brain power tool kit is mind lab Pro mind laab Pro is a neut Tropic supplement that is scientifically proven to enhance your brain power when I take my mind lab Pro my mind feels like it has a better grip on the world my thinking is more lucid and the articulation of my speech is radically improved mind lab pro has been tested in rigorous double blind Placebo controlled human trials and has been proven to enhance brain power for users in every age group mind lab Pro is an advanced formulation of 11 neut Tropic ingredients and is backed by research from over 1,400 human trials conducted over the past 32 years so if you’re looking to enhance your brain Power mindlab Pro is an excellent solution go to mindlabpro docomo to start enhancing your brain power today again that’s mindlabpro docomo before starting the what is money show I spent most of my career as a CFO overseeing internal technology implementations and business Acquisitions over the next 10 years it is projected that over 12 12 million businesses in the US will be sold if you are an operator running a business generating between 5 and $200 million of Revenue and you’re considering selling your business within the next decade then there is a significant opportunity for you to deploy technology to streamline business processes reduce operating cost and enhance the multiple your business ultimately sells for to this end I am partnering with the team at emerge Dynamics a firm with Decades of experience in maximizing the value of private L held small and Middle Market businesses go to emerg dynamics.com Breedlove to learn how you can build an attractive High multiple company that maximizes your return When you fully exit again that’s emerge dynamics.com Breedlove the other thing on profit that I think is important is that you dig deeply enough into it it’s ultimately a psychological phenomenon right it’s this idea that you are better off than you were like when you enter a trade consensually you would only do so because you believe you’re going to be better off after the trade than you are before the trade and this is the magic of consent because when both parties do that both parties profit psychologically with every consensual trade now if you introduce coercion into that equation well that means that one of the parties is not willing to do it and so they suffer psychological loss or psychological break even at best well another party um obviously the coercing party would have psychological profit in that exchange and so you could think you know we typically think there’s only financial profit but I think Financial profit is really just a a mirror um or an approximation a social appraisal of the psychological profit that’s building up through consensual trade and you know I that’s like what isn’t that almost the definition of making a better world is like you want people to be more satisfied and so you want the satisfaction to be mutual you want the the you want every exchange to be mutual and consensual so that both parties can profit psychologically and then obviously that becomes encoded as Financial profit that actually guides the actions of producers and consumers toward the most urgent wants of of consumers in the marketplace basically well and and this is a good example of things is unseen and now let’s dissect one of Trump’s policies and let’s say that what he’s proposing is that we cap credit card while the consumer is getting back on their feet we cap credit card interest rates at 10% let’s talk about the effects unseen of something like that that may in fact cause some individuals not to be able to get credit at all because if the interest rate is only 10% they’re going to have to vet the risk yeah of individuals and they’re going to only have to extend to individuals who are very low risk and so it’s much like the minimum wage it has this unseen effect of actually reducing the total amount of credit or Capital available and I think this again comes from this intelligent design failure is that we believe well there is this profit that arose and we can now take this profit and redistribute it well profit didn’t arise it was earned and what you’re proposing is a destruction of the rules that led to the behaviors that caused the appearance of that profit right so what does that mean let’s take an example let’s say and I you know I do find this disgusting and I have my own reasons for why that is the case let’s take something like insulin which is necessary y it is in large part due to overregulation that no one can manufacture that more people can’t M manufacture a $5 bial of insulin and let’s say that you have the belief that well drug should never be expensive and you cap drug industry profits what you’ve actually done is destroyed the behaviors and destroyed the desire of entrepreneurs to enter that market and find anything in the first place and this is what hyek is critiquing is that when government constrains behaviors such that individuals cannot think their way out of a situation and cannot Adventure their way out of a situation with new options and new optionality we’ve destroyed Humanity as a whole one less one less Discoverer one less drug in the world can have an impact on millions or billions of people as you see with something like the the PO vaccine yeah which is actually an interesting case because I think uh actually for for went profits uh on the polio vaccine but yeah price ceilings creating shortages basically so in the case of Capp uh what was it you said Trump’s proposing capped credit card yeah that that’s one of the recent things that that he said just to balance the yeah that would create a shortage of credit basically right um and obviously there’s deeper problems here right why do we need so much credit well we’re in a fiat currency economy and blah blah blah but then the the flip is also true right you try to create a price floor like minimum wage is basically a price floor for labor you end up with Surplus right you end up with all these Surplus laborers standing around with no job that would have otherwise been employed if you remove the institutional barriers uh and let the market clear right let let supply and demand meet wherever that wherever that intersection point is that is the naturally discovered price and you wouldn’t have institutional unemployment at least um so this like you can’t there’s no again it’s funny here and he says this at the beginning of the book He’s not condemning reason or rationality per se he’s condemning the idea that we can use our reason or rationality to reconstruct the World by force or by Central planning in a way that’s better than what the emergent or extended order is so no matter which no and this is why says this in the book Human Action all government action is a misallocation of capital it’s like basically you’re no matter what you the government does it is actually it’s coercing people legally it’s lowering the psychological profit it’s it’s and when you say misallocation of capital what does that mean it’s like well the proper allocation of capital would be one that’s consistent with the wishes of consumers that have done useful work for others basically right people that have earned earned savings and then they’re allocating it in a way to buy the things they want when government intervenes they’re violating the property rights of those uh people with savings basically they’re stealing their purchasing power inflation yeah through inflation through taxation through fat regulation and then they’re redirecting those proceeds to do other things like go to war and you know propagandise and all the things that governments do so it’s really um it’s paints a really Bleak picture for the role of the state in any capacity whatsoever like it’s just been this Flatout exploitative business model since time Memorial right that people figured out oh we’ve got weapons or Force we can bludgeon these people and steal from them even condition them to believe that we are a normal regular part of society but I think it’s just the most sophisticated form of gang violence that humans know of and we’re still stuck under its spell right we’re still well Cala needs this and Trump like why why do we need one ape to rule 330 million Apes like it just doesn’t make any sense you know it’s funny though one of the points that H makes in the book is that every society that has evolved and that has survived evolved the government and its job is supposed to be in the libertarian sense the protection of several property the protection of private property it then grows to be able to do so many more things and one of the simplest things we can do is impose Market discipline upon the government which it doesn’t have and fredman makes this point is that it’s basically what Bitcoin does right yes yes because it is fundamental scarcity and fundamental allocation and this point is very important what you’re talking about is capital accumulation and and what the austrians note is that Rising standards of living increasing wages technological improvements that all comes from capital accumulation but governments never accumulate Capital they only disperse capital and they disperse it under the false ideal that we have a better way to redistribute again we talked about why that’s a fallacy to distribute this money than an individual could when selfishly acting for themselves but this is the beautiful thing about the market is that when you act in your own interests you actually inadvertently serve others by employing them and exchanging with them and if the exchange is voluntary then it can be profitable on both sides yes and this is you know hard pill for people to swallow but again I hope the outcome of this work can be that people will have not only a sense of awe for how the extended order is constructed and how markets function but will have sound Arguments for Liberty and this is what hyek says he says thus without the rich without those who accumulated Capital this is the point it’s not and again without profit there’s no capital accumulation so that whole syllogism Falls if there’s no profit without the rich without those who accumulated Capital those poor who could exist at all the things unseen would be very much poorer indeed scratching a livelihood from marginal lands on which every drought would kill most of the children they would be trying to raise the creation of capital altered such conditions more more than anything else as the capitalist became able to employ other people for his own purposes his ability to feed them served both him and them and the tragedy of our time then is that we live in a world where people who believe in coercive planning and command economies and who are factually and logically wrong have co-opted capitalism to be some kind of brutal and insensitive philosophy that doesn’t provide for people when just the opposite is true and the only reason they’re able to say that is underneath the profits and prot C that a capitalist Society has provided and the only reason the people that they are calling disadvantage the only reason the planet can even afford to support them is because of markets and exchange yeah it is unreal how what like socialists trying to saw off the branch on which all of civilization rests in a way um which is again back to that whole idea of rouso trying to frame The Savage as like the the moral ideal toward which we should strive it’s like what do you mean that’s completely backwards um all right we’ve been going for a bit here I thought maybe this is a very it’s not a terribly long book but it’s very dense but maybe we could just name off some of the chapters yeah and you could jump into maybe some talking points you thought were um pretty apt for those particular chapters we already kind of hit on between Instinct and reason uh the origins of Liberty property and Justice do you want to say something about this um I think the simplest thing I would say about two and I’d like you to continue because I think this will help us develop a logical flow yeah to kind of bring it all together for the audience is that this is several property is an evolved practice that’s what I would like to say about that and and then further about Justice he says the process of evolution is imoral and it can never be just because don’t know the outcomes ahead of time mhm and we don’t know whose local actions are going to affect which remote actors y so and to that point Hayek says that the extended order is the most complex structure in the known universe so that’s uh yeah keep keep going yeah I think if you consider how complex we know that the human mind is one of the complex structures in the known universe but the market is that to the power of 8 billion human Minds interconnected right interconnected by language interconnected by law interconnected by money interconnected by markets so the complexity is many orders of magnitude higher than that of even the individual human human’s mind so that’s an appreciation I think a lot of people lack and especially when you consider the central bank’s kind of mechanical metaphor you know like oh we’re we’re lowering interest rates to manage the economy or to you know as if the the economy is some simple machine that you can pull lovers and smash buttons and create outcomes uh it definitely leaves people with the impression that the wrong impression frankly that the the global economic extended order to use highx term is much it’s not even complex it is just complicated right machines are complicated um global weather patterns are complex right we can barely predict them a few days in advance and only in certain places so that’s much more in line with the reality of the extended order that it’s this highly complex Dynamic organism to use a more apt metaphor rather than a machine um chapter 3 is titled the evolution of the market trade and civilization um is there something a passage maybe you found particularly interesting here or something you want to say about it yeah I would just draw again to the ATT mention of the ability and the cultural practice of protecting foreigners right for which he mentions again this this Greek role I believe called zenos right we get xenophobia I think so yes yes for Foreigner and uh this kind of mysterious action of people who trade I think what is important there is not only that our Mainline philosophy and the observation of our Naked Eyes caused us to mistrust these individuals who do not produce anything but also that the cultural practices that outranked the and overrode in some sense the desire to fear foreigners that’s a very much extinct tribal thing actually led to trade and the division of labor so I think this is just an evolved process and again throughout history we gave one example of of the Armenian culture they may have a trade and until they’re able to actually apply that trade and exchange with others it doesn’t actually produce wealth for them or for anyone else H chapter four is the Revolt of instinct and reason um yes I think this is summed up best in in what we that Einstein quote that we mentioned earlier is that Einstein even being brilliant in physics and math desired production for use and not production for process yeah not not production for profit and I think ultimately what the Revolt of instinct and reason constitutes is this idea that as rationalism took hold and it wasn’t this wasn’t important just that it wasn’t the whole picture as rationalism took hold and failed to account for the emergent evolutionary Transcendent processes that led to our existence it led to a wholescale rejection of things that we didn’t understand and this is Hayek’s point is that we’re not going to understand we cannot understand these these received practices they actually operated at a level that is prior to our reason yeah and so that that is just this you know intellectual hangover again going all we’ve traced it back to Aristotle yeah that oh yes well you know if we can’t justify it we probably shouldn’t do it that’s not true in any way and Hayak emphatically says that you you owe your very life to these processes yeah yeah which leads straight to chapter 5 which is the Fatal conceit uh again I’ll use this brief this one paragraph description of that in essence the Fatal conceit is the overestimation of human intelligence and the belief that Society can be engineered through deliberate rational planning when in fact much of what makes Society function is the result of spontaneous evolutionary processes so we’ve just over indexed on human intelligence as like being the be all endall and it’s not to say that human intelligence obviously he’s writing an entire book about it human intelligence can look at these things yeah and try to make sense of them but it but it they’re not products of it’s confusing right they are products of human intelligence in the sense that they just emerge through the interaction of all these different human intelligences over time but they’re not it’s not the product of human intelligence in the sense that there was one group that hammered out the plan and then imposed it on the whole right so it’s that subtle difference between I guess emergent intelligence and top down intelligence that he’s basically saying the top down intelligence doesn’t actually have any anything to do with markets or money or law or language it’s all emergent it’s all constantly undergoing a process of reciprocal reconstruction between all the individual users that use it and uh there there is no there is no top down Central planner for any of this and importantly going back it is an evolved process and just as you said there was no single individual who sat down and hammered down the plan what were there there were many Collective groups of individuals who over the process of generations were selected by an invisible but nevertheless very tangible Market process and Through Time the behaviors and practices that were correct were revealed yes this is very very different and the the sense in which the positive sense in which we can use constructivism is we can go back we can look backwards and say hm you know was handwashing and honesty and honest was and measures something that led to the rise of this civilization the this other one and it’s interesting because both hyek and soul give the example of China and and I think Soul gives example they had uh n oil wells at a time when you know Europe was in the Dark Ages but it was government overreach it was their fear of the barbaric outer world and their desire to interfere and say well we should have not trade let’s close China’s borders that and what caused Europe just as Europe was pulling out of the Dark Ages they were doing that because they essentially had something like Anarchy where individuals were free to try different things and it isn’t that anarchy itself is profitable or desirable it’s that in a world where individuals have to find their own future and the rules of their success must evolve you have a very good chance of a successful strategy emerging that the rest of the people can then copy and that is exactly what Europe did for the rest of the world and it isn’t because the European there’s nothing eurocentric about that I just gave an example of where China was far ahead of the Europeans they just happened through certain uh quirks of fate and Central planning to make decisions that led to the decline of their civilization while Europe the little bit of free experimentation that it allowed for caused them to evolve a set of rules that we really know you know as British common law and as as the forces of civilization and you know this is the part that I feel most passionate about we want more civilization we need more civilization course and we don’t need people telling the lie that they as governments as Central planners have somehow have some special information that they can decide what the outcome should be and this is the point and the lesson of history is that nobody knows this is an equation with trillions of variables everybody’s predictions are going to be wrong yeah and this is now fascinating this adventitious here’s what they decry they say well now there’s an unequal distribution of things this is a necessity and it’s the only way things can happen and here’s why not only because profit is the only signal object Ive signal as to what is working that can coordinate at the level of the extended order but because you don’t know ahead of time which strategy is going to be successful yes so the people who happen to employ the successful strategy that leads to a future that causes Humanity to survive don’t profit from it and you don’t allow them to profit from it we have stopped the process of evolution and we have stopped the process of progress and we have stopped civilization as we know it MH and I’ll just read quickly so what H say so far as we know the extended order is probably the most complex structure in the universe a structure in which biological organisms that already highly complex have acquired the capacity to learn to assimilate parts of supra personal Traditions enabling them to adapt themselves from moment to moment into an everchanging structure possessing an order of a still higher level of complexity and what Hayek makes the observation that in biology we have this distinction between ontogeny and philogyny mhm onny is the development of the individual philogyny is the development of the species M and the thing unseen that he’s showing us in this book is the philogyny of civilization and Central planners say well I want the fate of this individual to be different the problem is that what you want and what you think is a shadow of what actually happened and you have no power to bend reality and say that this individual should have this outcome the best you can do again is create conditions where individuals have the freedom to explore to find profit to find the division of labor and to find our way into the future and there’s something very beautiful about that because we are all living in the darkness of the mind and it is only through our ability to imitate one another and trade with one another that we can face an uncertain future and I have to say with the interconnection and the poor political choices that we have today we need this more than ever I desperately feel a need globally for more civilization and the surprise is all we need to do is give each other enough freedom to trade with one another and find a new set of rules and a new set of discoveries that will create more wealth so that we can continue continue to trade and prosper and to the extent that we misallocate and say no no no no all of this money needs to go to bombs for Ukraine and all this money needs to go to combating the Russian plague well we’re not allowing the market process to decide what the outcome will be and we’re stopping progress and this is again why the Austrian point that socialism is a regressive philosophy not only because it it’s it idolizes Instinct and childish impulses which are restrained by morality yeah but Hayek makes this point he’s like philosophies that were anti-am and anti-prop were not successful and guess what you just described communism an anti-family anti-profiling to see we’re in the stage of evolution where we can look at history enough enough to see that communism and socialism are on a spectrum of command economies and outright reject the process of of command economy because it doesn’t produce Justice or equality for anybody yeah because the future and the circumstances and the means are totally unknown and that’s the only way that we can continue to make use of scarce resources yeah no it’s it’s brilliantly said and then again it all boils down to to private property for me it’s like just give people a very strong in tion of private property and preserve that and then watch the self organization create the optimal result basically maybe the good framing for this is like Civilization itself is this discovery process Guided by the profit motive and so what we’re saying is the more people you can get engaged in that Discovery process well surprise surprise the more likely discoveries become possible Right like you’re going to have more discoveries the more people we have involved in the search population and one just to interject one thing I’ll add to that it’s not just the Discovery process which is absolutely essential it is the stability of the received rules yes and your first 20 years of life is receiving an operating system for existence and this is what you were saying earlier is like as we have more abstractions that we can lean on we can specialize individually more we can focus on individual wealth creation more but so what I want to say it isn’t just it’s not this scary world where oh we all have to become super capitalists and accumulated that’s not the point the point is that we’re living in a world where groups are competing for survival and it won’t be known for another 50 or 100 years which practices lead to survival so what we need to effectively do is receive the traditions of our ancestors this doesn’t mean religion and practices of our ancestors and now because of the beauty of something like the internet we have the capacity to observe more individuals than we ever have before and I think there’s a great cultural acceleration so sorry that interjection was just to say that it isn’t just hey we’re exploring and oh my God nobody knows what the future it’s no this is the tried and true practices that have led toiv for 5,000 years and like you know let’s not reinvent the wheel folks let’s let’s use the wheel and build more more exciting economically speaking things yeah yeah even yeah because those rules have to be discovered as well right they’re part of the the fruit of the discovery process but then you’re right it’s not just enough to discover them they now need to be transmitted culturally across Generations um and there there does seem to be a direct this is this is a uh a this is a causitive relationship as far as I can tell right the stability of those rules and I guess you would also say the transmitt ability like as long as they’re stable and transmissible then you’re going to have more Innovation more Prosperity more economic abundance essentially and so I wonder what does this say about Bitcoin right I mean this is like it’s not like bitcoin’s this new thing even it’s like it’s just the best set of thing rules we’ve found so far yeah like it’s the most transmissible and unshakable Rule set humans have yet discovered uh discovered I you invented discovered evolved yeah Bitcoin is the force of nature too actually this is a great point to all of haak arguments Bitcoin is a complex system like you ever look at hash rate no nobody knows like I mean there’s a trend line sometimes it’s going up it’s going down like look at how full the blocks are it is a force of Nature and I think what we’re seeing is that the Dynamics of a complex system number one and the evolution of rules Bitcoin is a rule-based system but the culture is not quite transmitted by individuals it’s transmitted by nodes yeah and I don’t know this is just like it’s one of those inflection points in evolution where we have machines also individuals though it’s also like yes because you have to choose to hold like which side of the fork you want to be on sure is that what you mean well yeah choosing which node software to run but also to hold Bitcoin in the first place right as opposed to you know any any other while holding your savings in whatever USD like there’s a there’s a mic component as well as a machine component and this is where man and machine sort of get yes wired together in the Bitcoin network and to your process about abstraction and I think abstraction is a good way to think about the division of labor right because we can abstract away services like farming and Manufacturing we’re able to focus on the things that we’re good at that uh this this layer of money is now abstracted and autonomous in a way it’s like can you take your your complaint to the CEO of Bitcoin no right can you can you like Stamp Out one country and hope to have destroyed it no and you know culture and humans have this I hate to use this word but I don’t use it in a pejorative sense this cockroach like capacity that we’re just really hard to kill survivability and and it and and and this is the nature of culture and like and and these and can you imagine if that were subject to the whims of Reason okay this is a great example actually because I think think ethereum wants to be well hey here’s all these sexy cryptographic ideas and here are these ideas that Bitcoin had but we can do better right they are very much like they have shiny objects Sy but they very much are like Central planners and but the market refuses to bend the knee right Bitcoin is the capitalism ethereum is the socialism something like this something like this or they’re the keynesians and and we’re the austrians or something something like that uh but yeah I think ultimately what it has to say is that uh I mean rule based systems C that are decentralized rules cause systems to flourish wow yeah and and and this is this is another gear that’s it Robert I mean this is the thing which I’ve been trying so hard to say and I’ve read this book three times and I will’ll read it a fourth and I’m sure I will find new things but but the thing I’ve been striving to say is that we have the capacity to involve to evolve and not plan new sets of rules and we should feel simultaneously a sense of awe to preserve the market order and wow there’s the market is actually action out a distance and an individual working in a factory can feed his own family and help people around the world and you know build a single part that goes into a plane that transports a certain person across the ocean but this let’s let’s create the conditions under which new voluntary rules of Association can evolve and that’s going to lead to the survival of our species and that why you know to this point so so we you at the Fatal conceit so our poisoned language that’s why why terms are so important and there’s a quote in here from confucious I’ll definitely get it wrong but it basically says uh when when a civilization loses its language it loses its civilization sure because that is the foundation and so this is a great example and that is what Fiat is Fiat is like you know well how much is a dollar worth well it’s a 20th of an ounce of gold well how much is a dollar worth well right so you get to make up and and this is so cool an impaired language what’s that it’s an impaired language yeah and it’s just a stretchable it’s like it’s like a you know if I have a ruler and I can change the length of it you know it’s not very helpful I have a word and I can change the meaning of it it’s not very helpful precisely and and yeah I don’t know I mean I think I think this is the demonstration of the future we have this entity that’s not quite alive but it is distributed it’s very hard to kill and everything about it is based on rules and this is it let me give you a launching a jumping point there the definition the informal definition of a hard Fork of a soft Fork let me say say is one that changes the rules in a backwards compatible way this is like Hayak saying is like okay let’s evolve our future FS based on pres whereas a hard Fork is like no no no you’re backwards incompatible we’re going to change the block I don’t know there’s something yeah yeah no it reminds me of the legal Discovery process versus legislation by Fiat right where English common law is sort of observing how we’ve been settling disputes over time and then codifying what dispute resolution process says he’s work as law whereas Fiat legislation is more like a guy is in power and he just says this is the law and he signs the thing says do this or else you know that’s like a hard Fork you’re kind of throwing out oh whatever we discovered in the past no it doesn’t matter anymore here’s what you’re going to do now whereas a soft Fork is this a creative process like you’re maintaining the stability of tradition and custom and norms and all the things that you’ve learned through you know trial and error and disputes up until that point uh every every increment to the law is a soft for get backwards compatible in common law and it’s the opposite in in Fiat legislation world and it overcomes you know a lot of the the socialism hangover and infatuation with socialism is this fear that we’ll have chaos if we don’t have Central planners and a strong leader and this goes back so far right or this this is the confusing the layers again because of the dumb Bar’s number level like you kind of want the strong leader guy in a family yeah yeah or even in a family but for the 330 million Americans like I don’t know that you actually need that and and that’s to answer your question Bitcoin is showing us that we can have rule-based systems that don’t quite have a head but never Tik Tok next block every 10 minutes you know roughly every 10 minutes a new block is created a new block is created and it’s this this is the crazy thing it’s an island of stability and I guess what we communicate to people is not only a sense of awe for how they live in a world where people can become richer and richer through the division of labor where there can be more and more people through the division of labor where there can be action and compassion at a great SC of people through the market process not only a sense of a for that but a sense of peace and this is a very strange thing to say and I don’t say it in a theistic way that’s a separate totally separate podcast totally separate discussion I don’t say it in a theistic way is that we can learn to trust the market process and this is there’s a great thinker wilham Reich who was I guess one of one of Freud’s students okay and he basically said that at some point in the course of evolution this was for a totally different subject it was actually for for sexual function that that Vel this Theory but he said man ceased to trust his own instincts and it is very significant that the moral faculty is between Instinct and region and restrains Instinct but it’s something that we can learn to trust and we can learn the to trust the stability of being able to trade with other individuals yes and now the only thing if we can’t have borders and this is a major problem and it’s something that I think the borders that we need this is it are cultural borders we need cultural borders and that’s what bit coin is Bitcoin is a domain of practice which says if you wish to play you must play by these rules yes and that’s what we’re learning we’re learning that we can have a sense of awe for these complex systems that are evolved not planned and that our way to participate in them is through creating the conditions where exchange can take place yeah op in obedience in a way right and that will become the I pre the operating system of the Young Generation because the desire for communism the desire for equality is also it does also appeal to human instincts but this human animal and maybe we can show the starlings and have a discussion about that for sure we have this capacity to flock and to create emergent behaviors together and it is only it only manifests in the form of global Prosperity which is exactly what we need to check war and special interests yes you were saying you don’t want to say it in a theistic way but I couldn’t help but notice you’re basically saying be fruitful and multiply capitalism is the means by which we become fruitful and multiply process which has worked for our ancestors yes there’s an element of faith and to participate in this process and to understand that the only reason we can have this and this just kills me every single time and I can’t make this point enough times and neither can haek we can only have this conversation in the context of the you know the dregs of capitalism that are left over from you know the first two or 300 years of America because that’s the only that’s the only World in which we have enough division of labor we have incentive we have advention and exploration for individuals to find things and we can create property and we can have possessions we can have this discussion there’s an internet on which we can transmit and there’s lots of interesting things to think there and you know maybe we can talk about the role the government played in in the creation of the internet but I would love to show the the flock of star yeah the okay that’s it right there right yeah order without any headbird yes so what we’re watching is something called a murmuration or a flock of Starlings and this is a great example of a structure that is not planned is not necessarily predictable but emerges from the individuals following very simple rules and you can show actually in a computer simulation there only something like four rules alignment avoiding crowding cohesion actually you can do it with just three rules but I think now the modern they’re called boids b o i DS a guy named Craig Reynolds developed he a I had the chance of of working with Craig in one of my prior jobs but the key Point here is that you have a very simple rule-based system there’s no Central Authority and it’s not even clear what the evolutionary Advantage why does this happen like and why was it the case that starlings that are able to murmurate were the ones that survived and are the ones that now persist on planet Earth and none of this matters what matters is that a complex whole can evolve without the intention of any Central planner through simply individuals following very simple rules that are not the result of their rational mind these birds aren’t thinking they would be on the ground dead if they were if they were trying to know drive a car over over email so I think and and the other point I and this is again just a metaphor and it’s a metaphor for these things unseen it’s a metaphor for this moral layer that restrains our Instinct and generates the extended order no two murmurations are alike m but show anyone any murmuration and they’ll be able to call it what it is and this is this yes and and it’s this nature it’s it’s a p it’s something which is recognizable but is nevertheless not constant and not known ahead of time and I feel civilization that’s my point is civilization is that way we know civilization when we’re part of it it’s the only thing that matters it’s the only thing that keeps us above a a very demeaning and mean existence yes of subsistence and so I guess this is again for me this is one way I feel the A and and I encourage people to watch it and turn on the audio as well because yeah and the obviously it’s beautiful to watch which like it’s hard to observe the extended order in action because it’s well by definition all over the place uh I would say that essay you brought up earlier I pencil is one of the most poetic descriptions of it I’ve ever read uh very beautiful language but again to your point these birds are just individually following very simple rules right like keep each bird about 2T from my left ring and my white right wing and do what the guy in front of me does something like that Y and you get this it’s like one organism basically it it yes that’s right that’s right and and that’s what we are becoming in the market economy right we go from the individual to the extended order organism We are following very simple rules like several property like honesty like savings and these murmurations are recorded up to a million birds or more okay so if a literal bird brain can coordinate itself this is this is the intuition for how and why we can trust a market process which on its surface seems extremely selfish but nevertheless is the only process the whole idea of the Invisible Hand and this scares a lot of people and this goes back to this mistrust of mysticism and this mistrust of trade and this mistrust of people who don’t produce but the whole point of the visible hand and again there’s no perfect word for this this is why hyek is always inventing words well it’s the extended order it’s cadillax it’s all these different things is that the hole that emerges is the result of simple rules applied by the individuals yeah and those individuals participate in a hole that’s larger than themselves without having any knowledge of the flock as a whole a single Starling in this memor can probably see five other birds six other birds and that local coordination multiplied by the entire flock causes This Global coordination that’s right this local coordination leading to Global coordination there you go local coordination leading to Global and for us it’s you know classical biblical ethics right don’t lie cheat steal or kill and we get this highly complex prosperous order from which we all benefit we all benefit from the division of labor right like I don’t know how to create any of this stuff or a couch or toao water like but we just benefit from the fruits of it constantly yeah um because it’s you know it’s always available I guess it’s taken for granted in the Modern Age and so thank God for these libertarian thinkers getting us to think about it more deeply maybe we can now as we start to close out we can review the the HX order of argumentation so finish the chapter order and maybe I’ll I’ll find something where ha can can take us out Okay cool so the next chapter was religion and the Guardians of tradition um I you know I didn’t actually read that particular chapter but I I wonder if it does have to do with imitation and prohibitions right that we had in religious orders early on um these things became kind of the groundwork or the substrate on which we built other social institutions yeah well here’s the most interesting thing I I used to formerly say that what Hayak means by morality includes things like religion and intuition and I think that was a misunderstanding and what Hayak points out and it’s fascinating because he even there’s a moment in this chapter where he interjects well I happen to be an atheist or or more like an agnostic he’s like I don’t understand what people mean by the word God and it is much like the word people use the word society and don’t understand the whole to which they’re referring his point was that religion was an aus or a guardian of the C of the behaviors that were part of the evolutionary success or failure certain groups so so religion basically is a guise under which behaviors can be transmitted okay so as an example let’s say that honest wasts and measures savings honesty but and what do they say like like no lying no cheating No Stealing these shall not kill shall not steal religion then embellishes and say you will go to hell and you will suffer an eternal Lake of Fire I mean the these May well be real that’s not the subject of this podcast well civilization definitely goes there if everyone engages in it right like you want to see hell on Earth tell everyone kill everyone steal like oh you’re flip on the news look at and you know this is actually if America is the most capitalist nation in the world and we’re in the massive throws of socialism right now and if you need any proof of that the 50% of GDP higher I think starting in in the co area government spending is 50% of GDP this is pushing 50% I think we before something like that the number conciously fluctuating uh the key point there is that nobody escapes nobody works desperately to escape capitalism it’s always socialism and Central planning that they’re escaping and what is hell it is a a form of selfishness and a a dir a lack of things and this is exactly a and having to eek out a miserable existence which is ex the only alternative that that socialism has offered to the market economy yeah and an untruth a social socialism is a lie right it’s oh talk more about that well what is from each according to their ability to each according to their need right we can have this communist Utopia which socialism is an offshoot or a junior um descendant of that’s fundamentally untrue you can’t organize humans under this philosophy of from each according to their ability to each according to their need like well whose ability who’s going to incentivize them to use their ility who’s deciding who has what needs right to what extent are these needs possible you can’t actually organize a large group of humans under that so it’s um yeah I was just saying that the capitalism well what does SA say he goes capitalism is what happens when you leave people alone you know it is the self-organizational normal kind of way state of being it’s it’s when people again the rational mind overrides the emergent or evolved order and says oh no no these things are wrong you know we need a central bank we need a three-letter agency we need whatever the the the override is yeah and all of that is just fundamentally untrue as far as I can tell and I’ll I’ll add at risk to myself a little bit to what safan said capitalism what happens when you leave people alone under evolutionarily stable evolved rule sets right yeah so this received rule set and if you think about the difficulty in planning what haak calls the most complex if it can be called an organism the most complex structure in existence it must be the case that no individual brain can conceive no collection of brains can conceive of what is actually happening in that totality and also that the first time we try it we will get it wrong yeah so all we have the only just system we can hope for are rules that allow for individual autonomy and allow us the chance to discover what might be a better future yes so and and and the re the received rules are all important is what I’m saying there and isn’t it beautiful that a lot of those received rules are ethical observations not stealing respecting the boundaries of other people right right and this is a big part and it’s amazing that that’s neither instinctual nor rational this force that restrains us because it’s an invisible force and yet it has this formative effect on on the planet I think it’s so interesting that you know H doesn’t know what God means but it’s like what does the Invisible Hand mean it’s interesting that we we anthropomorphize again both of these things and uh I don’t know I wonder if there’s a relation between the smithian Invisible Hand and God right if there’s just just another perspective on it that maybe God is this whatever this interconnected force that causes all this self-organization and creativity we just can’t find a word for it it’s the the source of all creation the Creator even maybe we just use that word as a indexing to that principle that is very difficult to put into words well and I think that is the the fundamental problem so so for me the market process there how do I explain this the market process is totally impersonal and totally immoral and it works for you whether you believe in God or not I think that’s the most important thing to State yeah but there’s a moral presupposition built into it for it to work right because private property has a moral Dimension yes so that that’s critical yes there there there are moral underpinnings that uh allow you to participate and this is actually really interesting so Richard Dawkins was recently quoted as saying that well you know culturally I’m Christian I I like to go see nice churches right and and this is kind of highlighting this tension between the the rational and the moral minds but what I wanted to say there is that what what it had aha this is it it’s the awe for complexity you see it’s both the awe and the trust awe for complexity and Trust yeah okay and so and then that is the part that in our hyper rational society that we find so difficult to fit and like well how can this work how can this possibly work and all we can point to and say is that it does work and I guess if you want to extrapolate that a little bit and and and make something spiritual or mystical about it I think let’s before you don’t go spiritual and mystical sorry just throw one thing there it’s interesting that you selected the word awe of complexity yeah because awe is that which inspires imitation so it’s like if we have this awe for complexity in the world and then we somehow that’s how we create more complexity right this capitalism is well we’re creating a wider variety and a wider quantity of goods and services we have a more complex productive output so anyways I just there’s something about this there there’s something between again it’s between Instinct and reason right that we how did we transmit all this cultural relevant information to become a more complex fruitful and multiplying species and I think it has a lot to do with imitation I think even those starlings were they’re largely imitating one another right how do they learn those rules that’s right and and you’re trusting that the guy in front of you is not going to crash to the ground exactly well and then this is the beautiful thing and this is how selfish actions and selfish ends can lead to abundance and prosperity for the whole is that you know you’re not going to crash because you know the guy in front of you doesn’t want right I mean there are exceptions to these rules doesn’t himself at the edges and and what you help me see I would like to give it back to you and for you to explain a little bit about a a is that which inspires imitation but we are expanding the menu of optionality for human behavior and that’s the only chance that is my appeal to the listeners and to people who are considering which economic and political systems might be ideal for us is to create conditions where the optionality to explore we don’t know like human being this is another one of those I can’t call it a weasel world but it’s extremely Broad and isn’t it neat first of all I think you know Instagram imitation seems like a terrible idea to me and I’m sure it’s causing a lot of a lot a lot of distress and alienation in young people but the capacity of a thing like the internet to give you a menu of somewhere between a million and 8 billion options for how to behave MH is amazing yeah and that’s how we’re going to plot our course forward because it does seem to me right now sitting I have a lot of political and economic worries M the only way we’re going to have to invent our way out of it but that’s not going to be purely rational invention it’s going to be an act people are just going to have convictions and people are going to have practices and communities of practice and isolated Network states that do different things and we’re going to see that worked yeah and then and then I guess in awe we will what made you make that con I mean this is secondhand from Jordan Peterson lectures but he describes you ever had you ever heard someone give like a very moving speech right that makes the hair stand up on your arms or whatever that uh that’s a biological signal of awe actually it’s pyo erection is what they call it so like you’re in awe of this person and their moving speech and you’re more likely to itate that person right whatever words they use that gave you that emotional sensation and so yeah I don’t there’s just a connection between awe but it’s not just doesn’t just have to be people even uh the awe for complexity as you said complexity is obviously non-human but I was just curious if that awe for complexity which I’ve never heard that term used before somehow inspires us to imitate uh our own creative potential because it does seem in capitalism is where we maximize our creative potential right like each person specializes in whatever the thing they’re interested in to the Max and then everyone else does the same thing and we all share and the fruits of one another’s labor and discoveries and it’s a you know it’s a creative over time so anyway I just there’s another thing I mean to get off the mystical deep end if you read the book Human Action and everywhere you see the word market just SWA in the word god Instead This you get a lot of very interesting sentences oh yeah like the market as because what is God supposed to be omniscient omnipresent and omn omnip omnipotent right so all powerful all knowing and everywhere at the same time well what is the market well it’s everywhere all the time it’s the most all- knowing thing we know of right it’s got the most knowledge flowing through it of anything else why the market you know the market can stay what is it Market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent yeah and and uh as far as I can tell it’s one of the most powerful things probably the most powerful thing human beings create in terms of what it can do so I’m not saying that God equals Market but I’m am saying that maybe humans have just struggled with their language to describe these self-organizing Dynamics over time and maybe sometimes we just use a word to represent those things which we find to be beyond words yeah I think Market is a placeholder for something we don’t and cannot understand yeah and it is and actually this is really important though the austrians are very careful to say that they don’t believe that the market is infallible because it’s a series of processes and in an evolutionary process there may be hundred mutations so to speak and H actually makes this parallel of which there may be millions of mutation of which One MH will be successful exactly but I think this is what we see when when words uh this is the limits of our language which the austrians and hak in particular struggled a lot with and he’s like I we’ve received all these language and he’s like by the time we understand a word we have a thousand years of practice and using it the wrong way and that’s why which is really interesting he himself again what I would call by his own admission in in the Final Chapter an agnostic or an atheist he himself says Transcendence is the best word to describe the market process because it’s and and here here’s the thing goes to the economic calculation problem which was of course so this is interesting because the Fatal conceit is hak’s contribution for the impossibility of socialism and it’s you know it’s again the idea that we’re coming from from this false frame that everything which is ordered had to be planned the economic calculation problem says on the other hand that only a market process can Elevate subjective ordinal preferences into objective cardal prices right because in in changes Dimension yes it CH it change and did qualitatively changes qualitatively right because in a command economy everything is just an eternal in an internal transfer of goods so there’s no value there’s no value and there’s no exchange it connects quantitative and quality ative right because you can’t quantify subjective ordinal preferences yes until you and that’s how you the things that make you an individual that’s how the private things of your heart that you value become part of what and this is why we have to be careful and ethical and moral in our every action is because humanity is imitative yes and so this one someone said that uh he said I think it’s Coello he’s not that he’s the big philosopher or somebody read a lot but he said the world is changed by your example not by your opinion exactly yeah and so and so this is why it is an incumbent upon us to have a high standard for ourselves because we are and this is what the categor what con categorical imperative is all about is that you should conduct yourself in a way that if everybody adopted that this is also now how evolutionary stable strategies work if everyone adopted that strategy a shelling point so to speak that it would be of the best benefit to everybody so all the golden rule the silver rule all this stuff oh my God yeah well and I wonder if we can bring it I mean so what I will say there is that there are words that for for there there are words that are placeholders for things that are known to be beyond the mind which is why Hayak uses the word Transcendent yeah and once you reach that level of transcendence you can drop any word in and it will kind of make sense and this is I I want to talk a little bit this is one thing that has always bothered me a little bit about Bitcoin is so you have these Judaism and and the god of the Bible is aniconic which means that at best you can have symbols that point to the existence of this thing but the Indian God Shiva is also like this and this shiv lingum is actually designed to show something emerging out of nothing but it is it is part of the an iconography which says that you should never have idols and you cannot conceptualize this thing yes the da which we call the Dow is not the Dow yeah the or the Dow that can be named is not the true D and then that must be true of the market right and this is the market that can be named is not the true market and because it’s a process that we participate in and then the thing that bothers the rationalists is that that why can’t we shortcut this why can’t we just jump to the conclusion and you know it’s like if I want to break through that wall I just have to run at the wall and see there’s no I can’t you know I can sit here and do the physics of you know I probably should because there a very high Lev be but but this is the the the thing that bothers individuals that there and it explains existence to a large extent there are certain computations that cannot be shortcut you have to go through the process and makes cryptography work by the way yes yes primality of numbers well let’s say something about that right now proof of work is proof of work because there’s no easy way to invert a hash there’s no easy if there were you know if proof of work wasn’t proof of work it was just multiplying numbers or was proof of stake or something you could just shortcut and jump ahead exactly and so the proof of work is the proof that you put in the time and it functions in fact as the timer and the clock for Bitcoin with the difficulty index is the proof that you put in the time and there is no substitute you know this is like the kind of things that you explain to kids is like well what is the meaning of life nobody you’re going to find out kid there’s no sub super hard work you know uh you’re going to find out this meaning your life oh yes and what I wanted to say is that we this is both very interesting when we reach this point of transcendence it’s very interesting that we can substitute any word because what we’re showing is that the words themselves are meaningless at this point but what I wanted to say is that some people equate Bitcoin with the Divine and I think that there are any number of things on earth that show Divine qualities uh like immutability that show trust that show distribution that show immortality but that doesn’t mean they’re the thing in them right and so and I was wondering there’s a book that you’ve read and that you’re that you’ve done a whole series on and I’m I’m behind on this I’m wondering if you can say anything about Aesthetics in the context of Leela and say do what is the role of Aesthetics so in the hyan world in the Fatal conceit we’ve showed Instinct we’ve shown morals we’ve shown reason where does Aesthetics fall on that because that to me is a big part of how we pave our path forward but can’t explain yeah well I don’t want to pretend like I’m any expert in Aesthetics uh but the one definition of beauty that I really appreciate is when appearances reveal truth that that that’s actually said to be beautiful um and so yeah to tie that to tie that into Bitcoin specifically it’s like well again we get into the linguistic game of trying to Define truth yeah but it’s either you know an accurate portrayal of reality which is a pretty standard notion of Truth when we’re talking about symbols uh the American pragmatist says say that truth is found at the end of inquiry so it’s like useful enough to be true basically right if this map gets me from A to B successfully is that because the map was true or because the map was useful right it gets the line between true and useful gets blurry in the sphere of action basically yeah if it’s a means that helps you successfully attain your ends well then is it true or is it useful you know I don’t know and then the third one is uh heiger defined truth is uh radical disclosure or unconcealed something like that as far as I can tell Bitcoin meets all three of those criteria pretty strongly it’s obviously radically transparent it’s open source software uh it is a process of inquiry you just talked about the mining process right it’s constantly trying to figure out what’s the solution to this puzzle can we find this yeah and so you’re so what is bitcoin it’s like it’s the tip of that chain that ongoing process of inquiry and then when you say an accurate portrayal of reality it’s like I don’t know reality is some kind kind of amalgam of time energy and information and like Bitcoin is a a clock it produces its own time obviously it uses energy in the mining process and it’s the first social institution if I could use that term that’s composed of perfect information like we know what it is where you know the last Bitcoin will be mined in the year 2140 uh you basically know it’s Supply schedule with perfect certainty which is an economic concept perfect information that we’ve had in theory for a long time but now we have something pretty damn close to it in practice yeah at least so Bitcoin you know beauty is appearances that reveal truth Bitcoin doesn’t necessarily have an appearance per se I don’t know what you would call that but it’s very closely related to truth which makes it something that’s a beautiful Innovation sorry I don’t know a lot about Aesthetics but no no it’s all good I I think I misunderstood I always thought that one of the that what Leela did was perc’s book oh Sor I didn’t tie Leela at all oh yeah that that’s what I’m looking for the static and the dynamic I think is interesting with Bitcoin because you have this perfect stasis of 21 million but it’s attained through this perfect flow structure Right This Global game of Bitcoin mining like it’s bitcoin’s constantly in motion it’s never one thing right it’s always the hash rate’s always changing wallets are always changing bit utxos are always flowing and so there’s an interesting composite of perfect stasis and perfect dynamism that come together in Bitcoin is there anything about the role of Aesthetics in individual decision-making and and here’s what I’m looking for something which hyek doesn’t touch on okay which to me is not only a Transcendent faculty but one that defies reason our experience of beauty we used this word all our experience of beauty our experience sometimes of correctness I can say this even as somebody who practiced math at one point in their life someone said that uh not all beautiful Solutions are true but when when I’m done if it’s not beautiful I know I did something so and this is what I’m looking for is that is there any is there any philosophical argument for the role of Aesthetics and here’s what I mean there there is man I hate to say this there is such a thing as a Bitcoin aesthetic okay and it has to do with with minimality it has to do with distribution and it it absolutely makes Bitcoin different from every other cryptocurrency out there but I’m trying to understand this this line between aesthetic and culture because I’m looking for more example of choices that we make and emotion is certainly part of it dart’s error which we discuss is certainly part of it and I mean you literally this is a fact from brain injuries if you don’t have your emotional faculties you can’t get out of bed you become a useless human being even if all your rational faculties are attack I guess what I’m looking for is there any is there any philosophical stance on the role of Aesthetics in guiding Behavior or making decisions I mean I would say at the bot like we can talk about markets until we’re blue in the face right but at the bottom the market that all of these other markets or all of this extended order exist to to serve yeah is the market for human reproduction right that is biological men and biological women coming together to create our biological future in the form of new humans yeah and so obviously Beauty has a major role in that um and yeah I don’t know if if you want to boil it down to all that that probably gets Freudian at that point that it’s we largely driven by these uh you know sexual impulses drives whatever it may be and I’m I’m well beyond my pig rate at this point but um I do think that all markets exist to serve the market for human reproduction and the beauty of the female specifically but also of the male for females in a different way those Aesthetics are very different yes yeah and and the quality that in the whole and is again very difficult to speak for everybody that males used to judge it has been said I think that that males judge Beauty on the Capac capacity to replicate and women judge Aesthetics in a male on the capacity to survive yeah I like I liked uh so like the the man’s view on the woman is her reproductive Fitness and the the woman’s view on the man is his productive Fitness something like that like his ability to have status and be productive and generous which gives her the freedom to like you know have a bunch of kids and not worry about the unknown let’s say and then the man is more focused on the genetic features she brings to the table there’s a fascinating evolutionary biology talk out there which which set makes the point that women are the original entrepreneurs and that they do the Gathering to provide the stable stuff for the bottom of the pot and to allow the man to take a risk and go out and make a killing a profit right so like because you know the the meat is going to be available very unevenly but this Hunter Gathering is is kind of a little bit more stable yeah and so here’s where this relates directly to haak the procedures that survived over time were the one that produced the most people who in turn survived over time and there’s no question of right or wrong in that it’s just a matter of what evolved and what happened to work and that’s a very hard pill to swallow and we need to be careful that it doesn’t become social Darwinism and survival of the Fitts and all these other things which do seem very cruel but I think that is ultimately the nature we live in a reality that we cannot fully comprehend we are ourselves the products of evolution Evolution will never stop because conditions are going to keep evolving and so here’s this very amoral I guess he calls morality but this I was just going to say it is an amoral process I agree with that but thank God that morality and let’s say the division of labor are aligned right if if if we were if we increase the division of labor by being immoral right let’s say killing stealing whatever we would be totally seems impossible we’ be it does it is impossible and thank God it is built that way because otherwise we’d have a serious problem so yeah I don’t know morals are maybe just the other things these Cooperative principles we have discovered through trial and error you could maybe lump them into the technology stack to some extent you know ver you might call them a psycho technology like you call language it’s not necessarily a technology it’s something that we’re equipped for and even animals use sort of Proto language you know you’ve seen yeah Ravens will call and then they also kind of whisper to their their offspring there’s documentaries too that show that they can like pass information to their children and like facial recognition and other things so language seems to be part of reality and um yeah who knows who knows man you helped me put it all together there and what I understood is that the future cannot be designed but it can be discovered and our job is to create conditions that maximize the possibility of the discovery of more optimal Futures yeah and the way we do that is not solely through planning not even primarily through planning yeah what we need to do is create rules that are palatable to other human beings that other human beings can imitate yes so we can participate together in this process of the division of labor the process of increasing the the number of human beings on the planet who are able to live in prosperity that’s created by profit yes yes yes yes yes and if you take away the power to change the rules then you take away the power to you know dominate basically or to win in perpetuity so like with the laws of physics nobody can change the rules therefore we just all play by the rules right we don’t there’s not a that’s right we don’t have an election every four years like oh we’re going to change the speed of light of the gravitational constant it’s like well there’s no point because no one knows how to do that so the ideal social situation is if we had rules that stable and this is the beautiful thing about Bitcoin beautiful right it’s somehow importing the Integrity of the laws of physics into the social domain through proof of work and so we get something that’s law of physics like in the social domain uh or in the social institution of money let’s say and and that seems like a really big deal I I laugh when I see all the Citadel memes but maybe that’s a good place to close is that language law money science the extended order these are all evolved processes and we are at a very unique point in history where we have a chance to have a money that is accessible to everyone but not controlled by anyone yes and now let’s find the sets of rules that allow us to govern ourselves in a way that we aren’t exploited for evil Wars and other purposes by nation states but can live together in Peace by producing abundance through capitalism and free exchange I can’t think of anything better and I don’t know why it’s so hard but haek is here to show us that we need to invol we need to avoid the conceit of believing that everything which should be part of our future can be designed in fact it needs to be evolved yes and we’re in that process of evolution and have received through our moral traditions of what is required to project that into the future yes yes that’s beautifully said um I’ll paraphrase I think as berran Russell said something like man first seeks to secure himself against attack then seeks to uh attack basically something like that and so Bitcoin that and that is sort of the animalistic basic you know cavem and nature but we’ve come a long way we’ve discovered all these things uh these principles to help us cooperate but I think we actually even the ethical systems but Bitcoin is somehow bringing together the ethical and the the economic incentives right you actually get incentivized ethicality and I don’t know that’s really interesting and it it it protects people it allows you to protect yourself from being attacked and then also as you can I mean and not seek to to attack because well you can’t get other anyone’s Bitcoin very easily so you might as well just cooperate and be a productive good Market actor I I like to say they have bureaucracy and we have cryptography so that’s how we win this important to note by the way that the Bertrand Russells and Einsteins of the world are a cautionary tell first of all they were brilliant in their own right I guess he was the H one of the authors of principia and Einstein obviously Theory relativity general relativity n they were many of them socialists and this is important H makes a remark about this he’s like socialism is particular Al seductive to individuals who have a strong rational faculty because it’s the law of the instrument if all you have is reason you you tend to think that everything is has a hammer you tend to think that everything is nail so uh this is really important and and in this book there’s a great quote which says that nothing could be further from the truth than to believe that an understanding of science makes people more fit at survival or wiser in other areas of this is by one of the founders of the scientific method and and the application of science I think the the guy who came up with concept of H Instinct yeah so uh that is just to say that somehow the brightest amongst us are the most susceptible to socialism because they believe they’re just smart enough to plan everything for everyone but that is exactly what it is a conceit or an ego and actually that’s maybe that’s a really I would argue that entrepreneurship inoculates you against that [ __ ] too like in what way go get a real job or run a business in the real world and you’ll you’ll it’ll shake up your your big major belief in human reason running everything like there’s so much where you think you know you build a model you build a business model and you oh this is going to be the thing and then it just is destroyed in front of your eyes you’re like oh wait a minute yeah actually you need this tinkering like process of touching reality touching the hot stove learning repeating reasons involved in that but it’s not everything so these guys that live in the Ivory Tower the whole lives their whole career I think they tend to start to look exactly they start to look at human reason as the be all end all is there anything we missed did were we able to mention the last two chapters which are the Mysterious World of trade and money and the extended order and population growth I’ll hit those in reverse order so population growth kind of destroys malus and we’ve been through that and he explains and he in fact emphatically says that there’s there’s no example there’s no case ever or does he foresee that there would be one where an increase in population led to a decline in standard of living and he again makes this point about things unseen that the it is it is not correct to argue because there are lots of poor people that people are poorer because of capitalism no there are more people in existence right and they start at the lower wronger the ladder because they’re still in this process of cultural Evolution and evolving and understanding what capitalism is and it’s not capitalism it’s the extended order and how that works and then for the Mysterious World of trade and money I think this is again this this poison mystical idea of this GRE or Roman ideal that you don’t trust anything that isn’t Agriculture and believe me I understand that I feel as somebody who works in technology like oh I wish I just grew Cor because nothing seems to work as intended but one of the Miracles of capitalism is that we’ve reduced the global Workforce so like maybe like 4% of the global Workforce is now in agriculture yeah and number will keep going down but the food per capita is higher than it’s ever been and growing right so it’s this ex extensive specialization I just want to there’s one small definition in here because another word that’s really hard there’s just a lot of definitions for it is the word economics actually and he had an interesting one in here I don’t know if this is actually a definition but I just thought it was an interesting take he said the Curious task of Economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design I thought that was really cool just the economic process is um it’s an organic process that is there’s a rational the r human rationality participates in the process but it’s not the whole thing right there’s a lot of levels beneath it and so well and this is why misus says that an economist can never be a favorite of authoritarians or dictators right because he’s always the one saying nope that won’t work nope that won’t work and uh yes uh let me end from my side with a question and it’s really a question for the audience have we made the case for Liberty and an extended order more palatable and if not I would love it if people would ask those questions what what still don’t they trust about what we call the extended order which is just ha’s better a new word new phrase for capitalism and yeah I guess we all have our doubts too and I wonder I don’t actually anymore I feel very confident I feel very confident in the extended order as the way that we create prosperity for the greatest number of people and the Fatal conceit and the economic calculation problem being like two of the ways that we demolish that but I still wonder oh is there a better way and how do we address we’ve tried to in this talk you know why social justice and why equality is not the right way to think about things we shouldn’t be thinking in terms of outcomes we should be thinking in terms of processes but yeah what’s what’s your what do you think the remaining questions are that people would have that no I think that’s a great question to end on that’s sort of the the mission you set out in the beginning and it’s a good question to leave with the audience and uh I would love to see some answers in the comments like this stuff seems I don’t maybe I’m just excessively relying on my intuition but I’ve always known that individual human freedom is the answer to all this [ __ ] yeah and then I feel like I’ve just been reading a lot of it sounds like confirmation bi us but every sound argument I’ve ever heard reconfirms that I’ve tried to read I’ve read marks I’ve read some of this other it’s just just nonsense to me as soon as I start reading marks like this guy’s utter he’s [ __ ] badshit crazy none of this makes any sense at all I can’t believe people have bought into that philosophy so yeah I I like the question that we should ask the audience what else we and others can do to help make this philosophy more accessible and palatable for people because as far as I can tell this is the path forward for the human race and what what Hayak brings up is that what we need to avoid is the naturalistic fallacy which is because it’s pleasing it must be good or must be correct and you’re not saying that explicitly because individual liberty means indiv high order Liberty means I will have to abide by more and more and more rules that restrain my animalistic Instinct this important number instincts number one number two it means that if I wish to profit and survive I have one way forward and that is to be of benefit to my fellow human beings yes Amen to that Anish thank you so much man enjoyed it thanks for coming to Miami yep we’ll do it again thanks for watching if you enjoyed this episode click here to find more just like it and here to find our most recent episode also make sure to like this video to help shine light on the Corruption of money and be sure to subscribe to this channel to stay connected

Truly Right View: Advocating for Free Speech in the Age of Political Censorship

Introduction: What is Free Speech Today?

In a world where political discourse is dominated by big tech, cable news, and social media influencers, free speech is constantly under threat. From censorship of conservative viewpoints to the silencing of dissent on controversial issues, we are witnessing an alarming trend of restrictions on the most fundamental rights of any citizen in our Constitutional Republic: the right to speak freely.

But what does free speech truly mean in today’s context? Are we protecting it, or are we allowing authoritarian ideologies like socialism, communism, fascism, and dictatorships to erode it?

The Constitutional Perspective: Why Free Speech is Non-Negotiable

The First Amendment of the United States Constitution is crystal clear: “Congress shall make no law… abridging the freedom of speech.” The Founding Fathers understood the importance of free speech in preserving a free society. Without it, the ability to challenge government, expose corruption, and advocate for truth would be crushed.

Yet today, under the guise of protecting people from “misinformation” and “hate speech,” powerful institutions are curbing our ability to express ideas that do not conform to their narratives.

Do we not see this as a slippery slope toward authoritarianism?

Shouldn’t we, as citizens, be the ones who decide what we can or cannot hear, not a centralized body or corporation?

Social Media and Cable News: Platforms or Gatekeepers?

Social media was once hailed as the bastion of free speech. It allowed ordinary individuals to share their thoughts, advocate for causes, and hold the powerful accountable. However, over the years, major platforms like Twitter (now X), Facebook, and YouTube have become gatekeepers rather than facilitators of free expression.

Algorithms favor certain ideologies, while alternative viewpoints—especially those with a more conservative or constitutional slant—are shadow-banned, demonetized, or outright censored.

Does this not resemble the tactics of monarchies, communistic or fascist regimes that control what their citizens can see and hear?

Shouldn’t a true democracy allow the free flow of ideas, even if those ideas challenge the status quo?

Social Media Influencers: Fighters for Freedom or Puppets of Censorship?

Many social media influencers, especially those aligned with constitutional values, have become modern-day warriors for free speech. Yet, they face intense backlash, censorship, and de-platforming for voicing opinions that challenge globalist or left-leaning narratives.

How many times have we seen influential voices banned simply for questioning government policies, election results, or health mandates?

Isn’t it concerning that only a select group of elites can decide what is “acceptable” discourse?

While some influencers fall in line with these restrictive policies, others have emerged as champions for free speech, using their platforms to resist censorship and uphold constitutional rights. The question is: Will we support these voices, or will we allow them to be drowned out by corporate and governmental censorship?

The Dangers of Socialism, Communism, and Fascism: A Threat to Free Speech

At the heart of socialism, communism, and fascism lies a common tactic—control over speech. These ideologies have historically sought to suppress dissent, limit expression, and create a monolithic narrative that favors those in power.

Look no further than authoritarian regimes past and present, where dissenters are imprisoned, media is state-controlled, and free speech is criminalized. Can we really ignore the striking similarities between these oppressive ideologies and the current state of political discourse in America?

Is the suppression of speech today not a precursor to more draconian measures tomorrow?

Should we not fight to preserve the right to freely express political, social, and economic ideas?

The Truly Right View: Defending Freedom in the Digital Age

At Truly Right View, we believe in the unwavering defense of free speech as enshrined in the U.S. Constitution. We reject the encroaching influences of socialism, communism, fascism, and any form of dictatorship that seeks to undermine this fundamental right.

Our platform is dedicated to bringing you uncensored news, analysis, and commentary from a truly constitutional perspective. We provide a space where voices that have been silenced or marginalized can be heard, and where you—the citizen—can engage in the free exchange of ideas.

Join the Fight: Sign Up for Our Channel and Newsletter

Do you value free speech?

Do you believe that the right to express your thoughts, opinions, and beliefs should never be compromised, no matter how controversial they may be?

If so, we invite you to join the fight for free speech by subscribing to the Truly Right View channel and newsletter. Stay informed on the latest developments in free speech advocacy, political commentary, and constitutional rights. Together, we can stand against the creeping influence of censorship and authoritarianism.

Why wait for others to defend your rights?

Become part of a movement that fights for the truly free society envisioned by our Founding Fathers.

Will You Speak Up or Stay Silent?

In the end, the future of free speech rests in our hands. We can either stand idly by as it is eroded by corporate and governmental overreach, or we can take action to protect and preserve it.

Will you speak up for your rights, or will you allow them to be taken away piece by piece?

The choice is yours.

Subscribe to the channel for Truly Right View today, and support our patriots shop together, let’s ensure that free speech remains the bedrock of our Constitutional Republic.

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The Fatal Conceit: The Errors of Socialism with Aneesh Karve (WiM520)

Truly Right View: Advocating for Free Speech in the Age of Political Censorship

Introduction: What is Free Speech Today?

The Constitutional Perspective: Why Free Speech is Non-Negotiable

Social Media and Cable News: Platforms or Gatekeepers?

Social Media Influencers: Fighters for Freedom or Puppets of Censorship?

The Dangers of Socialism, Communism, and Fascism: A Threat to Free Speech

The Truly Right View: Defending Freedom in the Digital Age

Join the Fight: Sign Up for Our Channel and Newsletter

Will You Speak Up or Stay Silent?

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