TRILLIONS FOR WAR — Nothing for Americans | COL. Douglas Macgregor

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Yeah, how many times do we have to play this film uh about regime change to discover that it’s a it’s a dead end. It doesn’t work. It leads you nowhere. Uh this really goes back to the Bolsheviks. Once they took power in Moscow, they then they had this notion of perpetual revolution. They were going to march all the way across Europe and install new communist parties and power everywhere. Didn’t work out and it brought on the Second World War. Frankly, uh I think I think we have to step back and ask ourselves what are our real problems and what are the threats against us that we should be concerned about. I can’t find existential threats beyond our borders. I’m sorry. I just don’t see them. I see no evidence for macity and determination to attack and destroy us or Europe on the part of Moscow. Absolutely not. Completely disinterested in that over there. the Chinese. How do you persuade people that Xi is not the evil Fu Manchu? That he actually wakes up every morning and hopes that he can hold 1.4 billion people together for another 24 hours. That’s his top priority. And he spends most of his time fighting internal corruption, which is overwhelming, by the way. That’s an ageless problem in China. You know, when the Japanese invaded the place, they bought off half the Chinese and marched ashore. People don’t realize that all the bankers in Shanghai cut a deal with the Imperial Japanese army. So, the Imperial Japanese Army marched in, killed large numbers of Chinese, but they didn’t touch the banks. Uh we we don’t understand the reality. So, I I think we have to face the fact that most of the problems that we have are generated here at home by us. we create them. And the budget’s a perfect example of it. You know, we’ve reached the point where nobody on the hill wants to cut a dime out of anything for fear they won’t get reelected. Uh that’s not a good sign. It means that people pay attention to one thing and only one thing. The check in the mail, the freebie they get, the food stamp or something else. We’ve lost sight of everything else. And then you have the small group of people in Washington that enjoy these uh regime change wars. And effectively the war with Iran is another regime change war waged by Israel and us. Uh the the possibility of war with Venezuela which looks very very real right now unfortunately is another regime change war. And if you go back and listen to Joe Biden and the people that surrounded him and the neocons that were advocates since I would say easily since 2014 when we installed this uh puppet regime in Kief to wage war in Russia, they they’ve all been about regime change at least on the surface. Obviously, they wanted to get into Russia, divide it up, strip it of its resources. Uh the bankers were anxious to see that work so they could all get rich. We have a similar situation potentially in Venezuela. You know, Venezuela has great oil and gas, emerald mines, gold mines. Gosh, of course, it’s a big problem. You see, it’s almost the size of Germany and France together. It has 1,700 miles of coastline. It has 1380 miles of border with Colombia and roughly 1380 mi of border with Brazil. Oh, that should be easy, you know. Yeah, let’s go change the regime. What are you going to do it with 2,000 Marines, some special ops, and of course, the old problem with all of these things, it’s the problem in the Middle East, it’s the problem with Russia. What do you do when it doesn’t work? Well, historically, what have we done? Escalate until we can’t because the American people finally wake up and say, “We’ve had enough. Get out.” And that’s what happened in Vietnam. Nobody talks about Vietnam anymore. Yeah, that’s You don’t talk about defeats, do you? Do we talk much about Iraq? I don’t think so. They threw us out in 2011 and the few that stayed on, they want to get rid of them. And I think most of us have pulled out as a result. U where where’s the big success story in Afghanistan? How many times do you have to have strategic failure before someone inside the United States notices? And that’s the biggest problem that the American people have been insulated from all these disasters. as long as, you know, they can go out and get a case of beer, you know, drive home, watch the game Monday night, uh, hey, it’s not my problem. And we have no draft, so no one feels the pain except the less than 1% that are in the armed forces. And, you know, they’re expendable. What are we worried about them for? It’s a pretty terrible situation. I don’t think it can go on much longer. And, you know, I think what’s what may rescue us, this is a terrible thing to say, but it may be bankruptcy. that rescues us from ourselves. But we have we have to admit to the blame, don’t we? We’re Americans. We we voted for this stuff. We shut up. We said nothing. We said, “Fine, go ahead.” And we’re in a mess. Yeah. No, that’s that there. Look, there is something to that. We have to take some responsibility for it. And of course this is what Ron Paul used to always say is that the system it this system is fundamentally unsustainable and so it will not sustain itself and that end is going to come one way or the other and then I think the question is what do we do with that and what is the response to that you know as you uh said as you were talking about this I’m thinking I had mentioned this on my last show but so recently on uh on Pierce Morgan he had a panel um where there was a uh one of our mutual good friend Scott Horton was on and your old uh colleague uh General Wesley Clark was was on the show too. And there was one point where it was it was the end of the show. So like Wesley Clark made this point and then Scott didn’t get around to respond to it, but I found it like truly striking. Uh at one point Scott was uh he was condemning uh Donald Trump’s support for Israel’s destruction of Gaza. And then uh General Wesley Clark said once at the end, he said uh he said, “Yeah, but what’s the alternative? What what does Israel pull out now and let Hamas say that they won?” And I I was really taken back by that that I went, “So you like at this point that Mr. former fourstar general, you still have not learned the lesson of like yes, that is I mean, okay, technically that is true.” And I guess that is one of the bad parts of fighting an occupation war where there’s an insurgency and eventually you can’t beat the insurgency. Yeah, they all they have to do is not lose and then they get to say that they won. But that applies to Afghanistan, that applied to Vietnam, that applies to Yes. if like so but essentially the thing that’s so frustrating about it is that obviously if you just think about this what the the the situation the corner that you’re painting yourself into now is saying what you can’t leave until what there’s not one young man with a rifle who wishes to to avenge his cousin or father or son or any like until none of that so until under current conditions Gaza becomes Denmark that’s when this this can end. Like it’s just you’ve set an unre it’s it’s an obvious recipe for forever war and it’s it’s shocking to me that somebody who you know like I look I don’t agree with Wesley Clark on a lot of things. he’s a Democrat and I’m I I don’t agree with his politics, but you would think that here’s a guy who was like the leader of of the NATO forces, a four-star general, a guy who’s got to have, you know, a like a head on his shoulders. And and it was just stunning to me to hear that you’re still working within this paradigm that means we bleed ourselves into bankruptcy and your boys get slaughtered like the ones you’re supposed to be responsible for. It’s just I I just I guess the question is more like how are more people in the military not able to see the things that you’re able to see, I guess, is the question. I I think a lot of the trouble starts at West Point because uh you go to a mixer in the old days, we were all male and they would bus in these girls from all over the place and somebody would walk in and say, “Well, you know, I’m not really very impressed and everything else.” Somebody said, “Here’s a beer. Put your beer goggles on.” And uh after enough beers, suddenly everything looks really good. Uh I think uh I think Wes Clark uh by the way I know him and I like him personally very much. He’s a very intelligent man. He and I always got along well, though we did not agree on a lot of things. But to his credit, he tolerated me when I disagreed with him. I think because he knew I would always be honest with him and I be loyal to him and I have been and I will be. But he uh he was wounded, almost died in Vietnam. They had to fly him on an emergency basis all the way to Japan and they thought they were going to lose him on the table. His wife flew into Japan and it was almost nothing short of a miracle that he survived. And so you would think in retrospect as you reflect on that that you would question exactly what you brought up. But he it’s deeply ingrained in him this idea well you have to win. We haven’t won anything for a very very long time and we forget how terrible the second world war was. I I listen to people well we won the second world war. Well actually uh 50 plus million people died in it. Uh we happened to be on the winning side. Uh but we were all really really happy. We came in late and we were really really happy when we only fought for about three years and it was over and we don’t want to go back there and experience it again. But that’s not what you hear. We we I’m so glad the president was tough and pulled those Russians to to get with the program. What have you lost your mind? This is a sovereign state. It has its own national security interests. They’re legitimate security interests. What what’s wrong with treating them as legitimate security interests? They don’t have any interest to compare to ours. Well, what are our interests in Ukraine? Explain this to me, please. I haven’t figured it out. And oh, by the way, what driving strategic interest compels us to support the Israeli extermination of people in Gaza? I don’t get it. Now, you may not like the people in Gaza. That’s fine. and the Israelis, it’s their country obviously if they want to do these things. But what are we doing supporting it? That’s is that consistent with our values? I hear all this crap all the time about, well, our values dictate, okay, what are those? Massurder and expulsion. Where’s that on the list? I don’t see it. I wouldn’t want to do that inside my own country. So, you know, what are we doing it overseas for? It It’s all very, very odd stuff. And uh the biggest problem though, I think it’s not just the Americans who on any given day, Dave, you and I both know the average American doesn’t care what happens overseas. You know, as long as he has a case of beer, he can watch the game, he’s happy. As long as he has a car he can drive, and can afford the gas, he’s happy. As long as he has, you know, wife and kids to play with, he’s happy. I mean, this is kind of where we are. We’re we’re not an overly demanding people, and we are rather simplistic. We’re not complex people in that sense. But the problem with this very inward focus is that we allow things to happen in our name beyond our borders that are catastrophic. You know, I Dave Petraeus, I talked to him back in 2005 when he was at Levvenworth. That’s the last time he and I spoke. He was a couple of years ahead of me at the military academy and I had come to the staff college to speak and uh we tal he he talked about Iraq. What do you think and everything else? And I said, “Well, these raids, checkpoints, and and uh patrols.” I said, “This is just a steady grind. It’s not going to take us anywhere. The British gave this up in Olter. It didn’t work. We don’t want to do this.” And then he said, “Well, I agree with you, but we need to do these and these these things.” And finally I said, “Well, why don’t we just leave?” And he said, “We can’t do that. Onbar promise will will become a platform for the projection of terrorism all over the world.” Uh uhhuh. I said, “Well, the in Vietnam, we just left. We just pulled out.” And it made no difference to us at all. But 58,000 men died. Another 100 plus thousand were wounded. And what two three million Vietnamese were butchered as a result. Said this is insane. You know, it’s this mentality that, you know, we can’t do this. We have to we have to have a surrender ceremony on the battleship Missouri in Tokyo Bay to end every conflict or we’re unhappy. But that’s not realistic. And that’s not necessarily why you fight a war. You don’t fight wars to exterminate people. I mean, maybe Stalin did and Hitler did, but we don’t do that. So, I, you know, it’s it’s very frustrating. And I run run into this all the time with many people that I served in the military with. And then you have the problem of people that were in Iraq or Afghanistan for long periods of time in the last 20, 30 years. And of course, they’re not very fond of anybody they think is a Muslim, you know. Okay. Well, there was a time when we felt that way about anybody who came from Northeast Asia, especially after the Second World War with Japan. But that’s not You don’t allow that kind of thing to shape your policy and your thinking. And I think politicians play to audiences too much. Yeah, for sure. You What was it that HL Min said? If a politician found out he had cannibals in his district, he’d provide them with missionaries for dinner. It’s not far off. No, it’s it’s certainly not. And I I think that there’s I I guess even even for someone like me who I you know, I think a lot about these things and I enjoy reading, you know, this is kind of my world. I I have been really shocked by the recklessness and irresponsibility of the leadership within the military and the political class. Like even for even for a group of people I understand there’s going to be some corruption there’s going to be mistakes made and things like that. I mean but look even like even in the George W. Bush administration uh John Mirshimer covers this uh uh in his book. It’s a very interesting little detail in American history. But immediately after 9/11 it was Coen Powell probably the wisest member of the Bush administration. although he still fell in line and sold the war that he knew was based off lies, but that’s between him and his maker at this point. Um, but so Coen Powell went to George W. Bush and was like, you got to push for a two-state solution. I mean, that’s the, you know, if we we got to go right to the core of this. This is why we deal with this terrorism problem. You know, you got to and then ultimately it was Tom Delay and other forces who were like, “Oh, no, you can’t go against the lobby like that. You’ll be a one-term president.” And so, he backed off of it. But just the point being that like there was an understanding by some wise people at the top of the military that like look this is why we deal with this terrorism problem and there seems to be almost no thought of what for even if you could remove uh any feeling of humanity for the poor Palestinians and what they are going through the national security risk that this imposes on the American people to be it’s it’s not as if like the world isn’t so stupid to not know that this is America’s genocide. side, not Israel’s. Like, I mean, yes, it’s Israel doing it, but they could never get away with this if it wasn’t for the the full support of the US government. Again, like Tucker Carlson, our friend last night, was breaking down. Israel, like going back to basics here, Israel is a teeny little country in the Middle East. It’s like they always like to say, they’re the size of New Jersey. They don’t often mention they don’t have the GDP of New Jersey. Okay, this is like this is not they’re they are in no position to get away with any of what they’re doing, including maintaining the occupation. They’re in no position. You know, Netanyahu goes around and talks a big game about what Israel can do. This is your this is your baby brother talking about how he can win every bar fight knowing that you’re behind him ready to crack skulls if anyone messes with him. like you know and and so but but the fact that there seems to be either there’s no uh feeling for this or everybody is so controlled one way or another that they just can’t act on it. But if just maintaining the occupation was this big security risk because it engendered all this hatred in the Muslim world against us. Well, what is this? What have we seen over the last two years? And like the blowback doesn’t always come within, you know, 18 months or something like that. like we we are opening ourselves up for a whole another generation of young Muslim men to be radicalized toward hating us even worse than we’ve already been dealing with. And there seems to be almost no thought of like, oh, that ought to be the concern of the American government, the national security of our country. Well, unlike New Jersey, Israel also does not have any good pizza. these guy having grown up in Philadelphia. I mean, that’s very disappointing. Having been to Israel several times, that’s something they lack. On the other hand, I think, you know, we have to understand something. People like me, I I was raised I was I grew up as a Quaker. My family, my mother’s family being in the country since 1681 in Philadelphia. I went to one of the oldest I guess the oldest Quaker private school in the country. We were all all male. Once again, this is before, you know, mixed everything. And Israel was treated as this uh as this triumph of the Second World War that in view of what had happened. And remember the the Jews collectively at one point or another have been thrown out of almost every country in Europe and the Middle East over 2,000 years. Now we don’t want to go down that road and ask that why is that? But that was taught to us. We we heard that. And you know they were murdered and and butchered during the Second World War. We now have a state for them. So for most of us everything began in 1947-48 without any understanding it of what had happened in the previous 80 to 100 years and how this sort of Israeli state crept into the mix thanks to the Rothschild banking cartel and people like Benjamin Israeli the prime minister of Great Britain’s always been one of my heroes. So we we saw Israel as this very virtuous place that had lots of smart people that could do interesting things and were a blessing to humanity. And you know I’ve been to Israel several times and all of my dealings were always with the IDF. People who were either in the military or had been and I I liked them enormously got along with them. There was always this undercurrent especially in Gaza. I was I visited Gaza, the the Israeli headquarters down there uh in 2020 in February and I saw everything that they did and the Israelis had that place locked down so tight you can’t even begin to imagine. I mean they’re the quality of their intelligence that they did. I mean, if somebody on the other side uh shot at someone, an Israeli soldier in a tower or something on the outskirts of Gaza, they would know within, I would say, 90 seconds who it was. They had everybody’s picture, everybody’s cell phone number, they knew where everybody lived. They had all the tunnels match. I mean, this is a brilliant operation. And I rem remember asking a couple of officers that were there that were escorting me. I said, ‘Well, you know, what are you going to do about this long term? I mean, is there’s nothing can be done with these people? I mean, surely they have this nice, you know, as Trump said, nice property sits on the Mediterranean. Uh, is there something? Oh, no. It’s hopeless. Have you tried to Oh, no. Yeah, it’s hopeless. Can’t do anything. So, I didn’t say anything more. But when the attack happened on 7 October, one of the things I began thinking about immediately is how did this happen? And within two weeks, it became pretty damn obvious to me that this was not an accident. This was deliberate. They let it happen. Now, when I say they, who are we talking about? We’re talking about the leadership of the military, the the state, the intelligence. And now we have women that were the Israelis are very smart the way they employ their draftes. They take very six or seven very brilliant young women and say your whole focus in life 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for the next two years, whatever is Gaza and everything that happens there and all the intelligence. They monitor everything. They picked up that this was happening and they’ve said so publicly and they reported it. Then you have the deputy chief of staff of the uh head for intelligence in the Egyptian military who gave a personal phone call to the head of intelligence. I guess it was Shinbet or it could have been Msad, I don’t know which and said, “Look, you’ve got an attack coming this thing.” And of course, by that time, a lot of people knew they’d watched them pro, you know, practice. Then this horrible attack happens, but the attack was horrible enough, but then as Max Blumenthal points out, they had a lie about all of it and make it seem much worse than it was. Not that it wasn’t bad. Of course, it was bad. And you know, this was very tough for me to deal with because I had this very positive picture. And then it became very obvious this is a trigger to unleash this massive murder and expulsion campaign. And that’s what it’s been. Now we now we know there over over 600,000 people have died. An estimated 7 70% of them are children. I don’t know what the ages they’re they they’re giving. It’s it’s unbelievable. It is something that I could never conceive of in the modern world, particularly involving Israel, because I saw this state in a very different light from the way I see it today. And I think this is hard. It’s hard. You know, I’m a boomer, right? So all the boomers, you know, they immediately say, well, the hell are these people in Gaza? But people are people. I don’t care what they look like or whether you like them or not or what the religion is. I don’t see that the average human being on the planet deserves to be exterminated because another person somewhere else says so. This is very tough. This is very hard and I don’t know that there is any solution that we could embrace other than to cut off the aid and stop it. Yeah, I think that’s right. I mean that’s yeah I mean I think it’s it’s the obvious you know it’s it’s you know one of the the kind of parallels in a way between Israel and Ukraine is that you see that and and this is I I guess goes kind of to the heart of why the founders of this country never wanted us to be an empire. Um because even when you get in these entangling alliances and you realize that even if well-intentioned, and I certainly am not claiming that I think any of this stuff is well-intentioned, but even if well-intentioned, there’s just a tremendous moral hazard that comes along with these security guarantees and blank checks where you give, you know, um you put people in a position. Again, it’s like saying to your little brother, like you’re going out to the bar and you go, you get in a fight with anyone, I got your back. Well, the problem with that now is that you’re encouraging him to maybe get in some fights that he otherwise would have talked out and not came to fisticuffs. And obviously in Ukraine that’s just clearly true uh that there would have been a negotiated piece at the very beginning of this which almost undoubtedly would have been more in the Ukrainian favor than what the the final agreement whenever this thing ends will be. There’s an expression if I could say something real quick. When if there is no accountability, there is no performance. And we really haven’t held people accountable, military or political, for a very long time for doing anything. And as a result, they think they can do anything. In other words, there are no constraints. And that’s really what you’re saying. Yeah. Exactly. You know, and my grandfather, my maternal grandfather was in the first world war. He was came back on active duty in the second. But in the first world war, he was in the army. He was a private. Uh he enlisted after he graduated from the University of Pennsylvania. So did most of his classmates. You won’t see that happen anymore. No. Uh and in fact uh he used to say to me he always wanted me to go to to Annapolis, which I absolutely did not want to go to because I don’t like going to sea. Really bothers me. I don’t like to be out of sight of land. I’m happy flying. And I figure if it fails, well, it’ll be quick. And I don’t want to feed the sharks or something else, you know, from a ship. So, I didn’t ever want to do that. So, he would say to me though, he said, “You know, Doug, you I was in the army and in the Second World War I, I was in the Navy.” And I became I was a private and then I was a master sergeant in just a few months and then I became an officer. And he said, “But you know, in the army, in a war, you don’t you don’t get much to eat. Whatever you get to eat is cold. You freeze, you live in the mud, it’s nasty, and people shoot at you all the time. He said, “So, if you’re in the Navy, you know, you’re aboard ship and most of the time you you have nice, clean, dry clothes and everything’s warm and the food’s excellent and you always have coffee and you don’t really you’re not really under fire very much. So, I really think you should go to Annapolis.” I said, “I went to the army.” He wasn’t entirely wrong. I found that out the hard way. But having said all that, his my family on both sides, everybody was violently opposed. I mean almost to the point of violence against war in 1917. And you know the first point was what has Germany or AustriaHungary done to us? Nothing. You know what’s the basis for this? Who made them the enemy? Why are we committing the national treasury and two or three million soldiers to this war? And of course, you know, the casualties we took were terrible. People don’t realize that in 110 days of fighting, we had 318,000 casualties. People don’t realize that. That that’s far more intense than frankly most of what happened in the Second War. Second war was was episodic. And we had 110,000 killed. And if you do the math, that comes down to about a thousand dead for every day of fighting. Now, I don’t think most people in this country would tolerate that sort of thing. But yet, we have a lot of people right now talking about war. War potentially with the Russians, war potentially with Iran, which could inevitably, or I would argue, will inevitably bring in Russia, China, and other states in the Middle East. Now, uh, and on top of this, we’re talking about Venezuela, a place about which most of us know absolutely nothing. And I don’t see any serious existential military threat emanating from Venezuela. We are out of touch with reality. We don’t know what this word war means anymore. And that’s the greatest danger because you know in Europe in 1914 that was the problem in Germany, France, Britain, Russia, everywhere. They hadn’t had a major war for 50 years or almost 50. And people thought, “Oh, this will just be a, you know, few months it’ll be over and, you know, we’ll we’ll trade some territory and we’ll be back to normal.” Well, that’s not what happened. And if we get involved in this war as as we are now in the Middle East and potentially in in Europe, because even though President Trump has said, “I really don’t want to do this anymore, so I’m just going to give you weapons and you can pay us for them and then you go do whatever you want.” We’re still there. we still have 100,000 men along the border. You know, if if this this thing is pressed by the Europeans, you’re going to see widespread destruction in Germany, Poland, Great Britain, any number of places, we’re not going to be able to stay out of that. So, we’ve lost the sense that our number one priority in foreign and defense policy should be avoid war. Instead, we seem to be in the hunt for it. As you were, you and I were talking before this began, two wars aren’t enough. Don’t worry, we got a third one over here. You know, this is nuts. It’s crazy. And none of it is affordable. And we’re on very fragile financial grounds right now. Yeah. No, absolutely. And then I will say, of course, particularly with the the the situation with Israel, it’s also now creating enormous turmoil within our our own country. and that people, you know, it’s it’s uh we’re seeing we saw mass protests through 2023 and 2024 about uh the destruction of of Gaza. I’m not sure as school season is just starting up here again now, we might be in for for more of those. Of course, you also see it’s one of the things that’s interesting and I’m curious to kind of get your your take on this because this is what a lot of people speculate about. But one of the things that’s that seems to be interesting and somewhat different about the relationship with Israel than any of these other conflicts is that you have these situations like say okay Joe Biden was running a presidential campaign and then of course as we know then Kamala he dropped out and Kamala Harris came in or he dropped out and then Kamala Harris came in he was escorted out and then Kamala Harris came in. It it was clearly just politically speaking here right which is something that politicians care about. It was an enormous political albatross around Joe Biden and Camala Harris’s neck that they were on the hook for support in this policy in Gaza. A huge portion of the Democratic base was just appalled by it. I think I I remember seeing polls where it was like 70% of Democrats considered it a genocide. So you got 70% of your base thinks you’re funding a genocide. And it really hurt them enormously also in the in the sense that there was no protesting against Donald Trump’s campaign from the left because the left was all too busy protesting the genocide in Gaza. And so they they it really was a political problem for them this year. Obviously in Donald Trump’s administration, we’ve seen time and time again where it’s a real political problem for him. Not just that his base is divided on this. He’s losing, you know, uh, he’s got guys like Tucker Carlson and and Megan Kelly and Candace Owens and and even Charlie Kirk to some degree before he died, you know, like who were really like divided, like the most influential people are divided over we don’t really want to get in this war with Iran. Then when he when he tries to take the Iranian off-ramp that they give him and pushes for a ceasefire, Israel goes and bombs him again and he’s furious about this. You can just tell. And obviously it’s in Donald Trump’s interest for this thing to be wrapped up. And yet, so with both major political parties, even though this thing is in their interest to get rid of their very immediate political interest, they still are giving unconditional support to Israel. And they still will never we’ll just kind of ne it feels like at least we’ll never see a moment with Trump that was like the moment he had with Zalinsky. as much as that didn’t work out and now he’s back to not as good a place. But it it just seems like th this is this I think mixed with the fact that our government and our media class has lied to the American people about every major crisis for the last 30 years and they’ve all been exposed. The the mix of those two things leads people to jump to conspiratorial conclusions. Like why is it that this tiny little country halfway around the world who we do not rely on for anything at all, why is it that both major political parties seem to be completely controlled by this country? Well, it’s a it’s a measure of what you’re discussing that most people pled today are convinced that the Israelis had a hand in killing Charlie Kirk. Now, I I have not uh I mean, I I know who Charlie Kirk was. I think we spoke three or four times in short interviews. He asked me to come on and I did. But also, when it became clear that I was an opponent of this policy in Gaza, That was it. I was out. I don’t know if you go back and look at one of his Turning Point USA events and I think this was oh gosh, maybe maybe a couple of years ago, Michelle Bachmann was there as a as a representative of the MAGA, right? Or something and she stood there and said, “Yes, the Israelis should kill all of them. I’m 100% for this. They should all be killed.” I almost fell out of my chair. Who Who the hell is this woman? Does she know what she’s saying? Does she have any idea what she’s saying? Uh this is a terrible thing and I know having worked with President Trump briefly face to face and I I liked him. I gave him enormous credit in 2019 for resisting the pressure to go to war with Iran when we had this uh global hawk shot down on the air defense identification zones periphery. And if you know international law, any military aircraft that flies along that ADIS, air defense identification zone, and in the case of Iran, that runs right down the middle of the Persian Gulf. And General McKenzie, who was a SenCom commander, had specifically asked for that Global Hawk. Then he plotted the route for the Global Hawk right down the middle, right along that air defense identification zone. And the Iranians looked and they went back and forth and asked, “What do we do? What do we do? What do you do?” Finally said, “Shoot it down.” Well, under international law, they had the right to do that. That was legitimate. Uh, it was unmanned. It was not manned. And so, President Trump’s question at the time was, “Was it man?” No, it was unmanned. Said, “So, no one was killed?” “No.” And he said, “Well, then I’m not prepared to launch a war.” And they had this thing ready to go. this strike package was there because you had Bolton in the White House. You had Pompeo over at state. You know, the neocons were there with I’m sure Ma McCain and Cotton and everybody else on the phone. Go, go, go. Let’s go get him now. And he wouldn’t do it. And he actually asked the question, well, if we do this this strike, how many people are we going to kill? And everybody sat there and well, 6 700 something like that. He said for an unmanned aircraft so I’m not going to do it. The other the other question that came up later but it it was in the undergrowth I would say of the discussion. What do we do after we strike Iran? All right. You kill six or 700 people, you destroy batteries of missiles or radars or something. Then what? And this is the biggest problem right now. Whatever you want to do with Russia, whatever you want to do with Iran, whatever you want to do with Venezuela, after you do it, the question should be now what? And that’s never asked. Well, we got to go to Vietnam and fight communism. Okay, we go over there and we fight, it doesn’t work, then what? Th this is the problem. There’s no second question. There’s no serious debate. what are the implications? And nobody stands up and says, “Well, it’s really not in the interest of the American people and the United States government to be drawn into a war just as it wasn’t in our interest to go into World War I.” Yeah. Well, it seems to the extent that the question then what even gets mentioned, it almost seems like they just like uh like they just write a fairy tale and that you know it’s it’s the we’ll be greeted as liberators and it’ll be a cakewalk. It so they they just assert that everything will be sunshine and rainbows. And in fact, there were uh around the 12-day war, which we’ll see if it’s referred to that in history or not. But around this this recent war with Iran, there were uh uh Israeli officials who were posting pictures with the son of the Shaw kind of implying that like that’s the then what that we’ll just waltz in with the because everybody will embrace hereditary monarchy that was imposed by the West to begin with. And I remember just being blown away by how how far-fetched the idea that the son of the shaw would come into power and that would calm everything down and then Iran would turn into a liberal democracy or something. And you just sit there like after after the last 20 years of results that any adult wouldn’t look at that and go, “Okay, but you know what? if maybe that doesn’t work out quite like that. And what if actually there are several different factions who would like to seize power? And what if many of those factions are more radical than the current people in power? And what if it takes a full military occupation to actually ensure that the people you’d like to see in power get in power because that seems to be what it always takes. Like if you you could do a regime change like you did in Libya where you do a drive by regime change and the country becomes a failed state and is an absolute disaster. But if you actually want to have a say over who you’re putting into power next and you’re going to have to be occupying that country and of course as as you know better than most that often is only maintained for the extent that the occupation is maintained as in Afghanistan where it’s literally was a matter of days. Well, stick your hand in a bucket of water and you displace the water. Soon as you remove your hand, the water returns, right? There there are cultural means all over the world in regions. If you want to know what Iraq is going to look like in 20 years, don’t look at the United States. Don’t look at Great Britain. Don’t look at Sweden. Don’t look at Japan. Look at the other states that border Iraq. They’re going to be a little bit of Iran. They’re going to be a little bit of Syria. They may be a little bit of Turkey. In other words, this is reality and these things are not easily changed. Jenghask Khan used to say, “Occupations turn soldiers into jailers.” The Mongols didn’t occupy anything. After they took over, they stuck a new bunch in there and said, “All right, th this is the deal. You can rule. I am leaving a small contingent of Mongols here to make sure that you don’t get out of line like four or 500 people, but you got to pay these this tribute to us on a routine basis. Uh otherwise, you’re free to do pretty much what you want. Well, that actually worked. And of course, all you had to do was slaughter a few hundred thousand people. Everybody got the idea clearly. But my point is that he was smart enough not to occupy, right? Occupations are bad news. And we have this terrible problem with wishful thinking. If China becomes prosperous and successful, has a wonderful economy, they’ll all become liberal democrats. No, they’re Chinese. Right? They have a culture and a civilization that’s 5,000 years old. What do you expect them to do? They’re going to be Chinese. And Chinese are not like us. Sorry, it’s not the same group of people, not the same set of values. And by the way, their values are not necessarily wrong. Neither is their civilization or their way of life. We got to get out of this business of sort of declaring ourselves the model for everybody else. We’re not. And we we really really need to focus here at home. You know, we have this thing we talk about on the Chinese side, the one belt, one road. And if you go to the Department of Defense, oh that’s a danger really. Oh, yes. They’re building all this infrastructure across Central Asia down into the Middle East and every they’re linking everybody by roads and rail and uh this is a danger. I said, “Well, why? Everybody’s going to trade and this is going to be successful. They hope maybe we ought to plug into it.” What do you mean by that? Well, you know, we’re a maritime and aerospace power. We’re only a land power in the Western Hemisphere. In other words, we don’t own anything in the Eastern Hemisphere. I’m sorry. That’s that’s a big wakeup call. We don’t own a damn thing over there. So, we could plug in. We have we have not looked at the things that we can do. You know, we can cross with the ocean from Rushfor and France to the east coast of the United States with fast sea lift. I mean, new brand new ships that are faster than anything anybody’s seen. We can get everything that comes into Rush for on rail. We can put it right on a ship. We can rush it across to Philadelphia, New York, Boston, Charleston, Corpus Christi, wherever you want to go. Offload it onto super fast rail and ship it lightning speed across the United States to Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, Puet Sound, and then send it from there to Japan or or China or Indonesia or Southeast Asia. We can actually do it faster and better than the Chinese can across Central Asia because they’ve got to go through multiple countries. And every country you go through, what happens? Hey, pay me, pay me. Now you have to secure it. But we speak one language from the Atlantic to the Pacific at least in theory. And uh we have one set of laws, one country. There are no extra payments. So, we could do a land office business if we saw ourselves that way. But is anybody talking about it? No. No. No. We want to invade Venezuela. Doesn’t make any sense. And what happens to the heartland? All the people that that bought into the MAGA story and and voted for Donald Trump if we built what I just described, the people in the heartland who’ve been abandoned, who’ve been de-industrialized, they would profit. It would spur growth there, but we need to invade Venezuela. You know, it’s it’s as I’m listening to you say this, I can’t help but think that all of it seems so communistic in in theory like just the and I mean just like look like the neoconservatives themselves, the original real neoconservatives were excommunists. They were Troskyites who came over. That’s why they were neoconservatives. And if you really look at it objectively, they weren’t very conservative about anything at all. And there and of course, as as you were talking about like, you know, um the the the occupation going from, you know, fighters to jailers, they also essentially the ask of them is to become a communist government. They also they have to go in there and basically become the state that’s going to dictate everything for these people. and you’re asking your military to do something that isn’t possible to do, which is to be a true socialist government that’s deciding what resources go everywhere. And just the the basic idea that we like, even if you were going to say that, hey, I reject cultural relativism and I think that American culture is superior to Chinese culture or something like that. It’s like, okay, but then the question really becomes, what are you going to do, enforce that at a barrel of a gun? I mean, if you if you believe that, you could set an example and you could say to the rest of the world like, “Hey, I think you guys would be better off having a bill of rights and doing liberty the way America does liberty.” But the idea that we are going to go around the world and stamp out every other way of life and impose ours is frankly, if nothing else, utopian. I It’s just not of this world. the you know I remember there was a there was one point shortly after October 7th and Israel began to launch its uh offensive in Gaza and Joe Biden president at the time kind of debatably in name was the president at the time he was asked he goes you know you already have this conflict in Ukraine can America afford to be backing another war now in Gaza and Joe Biden went of course this is the United States of America. We can do it all. And I do think it’s like, wow, you really talk about being born on third base and thinking you hit a triple. You were this this corrupt Delaware senator in the who happened to be lucky enough to be in the unipolar moment and you just still are living because you don’t even know what year it is. You’re still living in this this idea that like America can do whatever it wants to. And like, do you not just look at the 37 trillion in debt and and the massive crisis that we had at the time at at the southern border and the massive crisis of of homelessness and that we have the worst racial and political and tribal divides of my lifetime and you still have the attitude that we can remake the entire world even staring in the face of all the failures that you’ve supported over your career. It’s hard. It’s just hard to imagine that these people haven’t been haven’t snapped out of this. Yeah. Well, good luck with snapping them out. Yeah. You know, I you know, Washington said when he left office, give us 20 years of peace and we will become so prosperous and economically strong that no one in the world will challenge us. That was his answer to the military question. And then he also argued along with Alexander Hamilton that we can be the engine of prosperity not just for ourselves but for others. And if we’re successful others in the world will want to imitate us and emulate us. That was the answer to Thomas Jefferson who wanted us to join the French Revolution. Uh think about that. Jefferson believed that, you know, we were the model and that would have been wonderful. As Alexander Hamilton in Washington said, “We like Thomas Jefferson, but he doesn’t understand the the Austrians, the Russians, the Prussians, the British, everybody will land on the North American continent to crush us. We don’t want anything to do with that.” They were right then. They’re still right now. We can turn this thing around, but we’re not going to get there where we’re headed. That’s for damn sure. And it doesn’t matter at this point. I think who’s in power. It’s not going to work. Yeah. Well, that’s why I think it’s so important that you continue your efforts and and explaining this stuff to people because it really is. No, you really do have such an important um such an important knowledge base and kind of you you really are uh somebody who has the knowledge and the wisdom to to explain this to people. And I’m super super grateful that you took the time to spend with us. I’d love to do this again real soon. Please before we get out of here, let my listeners know where they can go to find you and follow you and and anything else that you first of all on four four October when we had this VIP dinner in the evening, your friend and my friend Scott Horton is going to be there. So, if you can break away and stick your heads in the door, uh we’ll tell you where it’s going to be and we’d love to see you. You could at least show up and have a free drink, whatever. Okay. Absolutely. Now, beyond that, uh, you know, you can plug my name into anything and generally you’ll find it on YouTube or you’ll see something on the net and I’ve written a lot of things. I’ve got a paper right now that I wrote for RFK Jr. at his request back in the fall of uh 2024. Actually, it started earlier than that because I was supporting RFK Jr. Then he went to the Trump team and so forth. And uh, you know, look, that paper is worth looking. I think I said sent it to your producer. It’s called taming the warfare state. You know, a lot of the things that the secretary of war mentioned, those are all addressed in some detail. And so anyway, bottom line is just Colonel Doug McGregor. You you’ll see anything you want, but I do have a website. It’ll take you there if you just plug in my name. But the bottom line is uh the national conversation is our attempt to begin a movement in a fundamentally new direction and we hope it will be successful but it’s just the beginning. Experience Politics

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